THESE WOLVES Darren Fisher on Entrance Themes, MJF's Entrance Theme, Hangman Page's Dead To Rights

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Welcome back to another episode of the Ropes and Riffs podcast.

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My name is Jon Kiernan.

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I am a wrestling entrance theme song composer.

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And maybe you notice that there's a little bit of a different background.

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Kind of looks the same.

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I just moved the camera over a little bit, but it feels different to me.

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Maybe it'll feel different to you.

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Maybe you won't notice except for the fact that I said something.

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But one thing you are going to notice is the awesome conversation that I'm going to be

having today with these wolves, Darren Fisher.

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you may be familiar with the music of these wolves from the renditions of MJF's theme,

Better Than You and hangman Adam Page over an AEW, a song called Dead to Rights, both of

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those which were takes on both of those wrestlers' individual entrance themes.

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He's also done with Reality Suite, a cover of Liv Morgan's music and of LA Knight's theme,

Let Me Talk to You with Montese.

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And he's had his music on AEW television.

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You've probably heard his music with Lee Johnson and

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even that song, Dead to Rights, that he did for Adam Page was used in some of the promo

packages for CM Punk versus Adam Page.

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So we're gonna be talking a lot about wrestling, a lot about music, and just having a

grand old time like we do here on the Ropes and Riffs podcast.

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And anyone who leaves $10 or more of a donation gets a shout out on the show.

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Now,

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Without any further ado,

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He goes by these wolves.

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He's gone by this wolf before, but today we got the one and only wolf in the house from

these wolves.

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My boy, Darren Fisher, how you doing today, my friend?

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Good, good.

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How are you, John?

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It's a day.

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I make it sound like it's a bad day.

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It's not.

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But I think, you know, it's everybody's got a little bit of a different day going on.

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So I think it's a day is all right.

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But today we're to be speaking all about wrestling, all about music, because again, that's

what we do.

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You obviously have such a catalog of music, not just in wrestling, but just music in

general.

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You have such banger songs.

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I want to talk to you about a lot of them, but just in general, it's awesome to.

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finally line this up.

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know we're trying to line up schedules and things and we're finally here my friend, we're

finally here.

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Yeah, thank you for having me like finally on the show.

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I know we this is like kind of the first like face to face we've had I remember we went to

oh well I was filming for GPW productions, know a shout out to them and you came to a show

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because Dragon Lee I think was on it or or one of the wrestlers and like we were like hey

and then that was so yeah, so This is like the first like big conversation we've had.

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So thank you for having me

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Oh yeah, too.

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And I remember that show too, because like you said, Dragon Lee and Drillistico were on

that show.

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like, you know, as much as I want to get out to shows, I haven't gotten out to as many

shows as I'd like to.

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That needs to change in 2025, ladies and gentlemen, especially here in New Jersey.

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There's so many shows with so many amazing people.

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And I remember like being at that show and watching all the matches.

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And this was when Billy Starks was going up against,

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Nick Wayne.

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Number one, that was a great match.

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Please don't die everybody.

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But second, I remember just like looking at my right and study kisses, just hanging out,

watching.

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And I'm like, this is cool.

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And study kiss is super nice too.

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So shout out to everybody though.

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Shout out to GPW.

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Shout out to basically the whole New Jersey wrestling scene, dude.

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Exactly.

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It's crazy.

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And yeah, we'll probably be shouting out a ton of people.

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So this would be the shout out hour, know, so.

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And it's cool too, because you know, for me, and I think for a lot of wrestling fans in

general, a lot of the outer market thinks of like WWE and AEW and TNA.

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You think about these companies that have TV, but then there's the opportunity to see your

favorite wrestlers and even wrestlers who are on the come up still doing amazing work at a

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lot of these shows in your local area.

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And I think in New Jersey,

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You have so many different promotions.

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know, you have ISPW, have GPW, you have GCW who runs a lot in the, I mean, they're running

everywhere now, but you have all these different companies who are now giving these

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awesome opportunities.

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And to be able to say like, yeah, Billy Starks and Nick Wayne went one-on-one in probably

one of the best matches I've seen live ever.

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It's just really cool to be like, our area is a hotbed for such awesome wrestling.

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And you get to be right there filming all of it.

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Yeah, it's crazy.

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Like I filmed a bunch of like Jacob Fatu's matches.

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I filmed an MJF match.

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Like it's crazy.

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Like the people that you meet and yeah, like you said, it's a hotbed of everything.

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So you never know who you're going to be interacting with, you know?

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So who's your favorite, or rather, maybe I should ask it in two parts.

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Who's your favorite wrestler that you've gotten the opportunity to film, and then maybe

what is your favorite match that you've gotten to film as part of the crew?

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Probably the nicest person I've worked with is Matt Cardona.

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like even before the match, he's always...

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like coming up to us and saying like, how you doing?

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And talk to us a little bit.

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And then he's like, for this match, I'm going to do this, this and this on, you know, wait

for the spot because I really want you to get my facial reaction on this point or

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something like that.

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Like he's always like very hands on, which we really like because some wrestlers aren't

that hands on and like will filming anyway.

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Don't want to complain about the wrestlers too much, but like they don't know where hard

cam is.

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or they have this whole big thing that they want captured and they don't tell us and then

we'd like, if someone's running in, we won't get them until they're behind me or something

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like that, right behind me.

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So it's like that kind of stuff, but Matt has always been great.

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um

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Cardona too about that.

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And then we'll talk about the match, your favorite match, but like, you also see with him

where he's been and you always see him putting out his vlogs and not even everything on

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social media being like, listen, when you go to a show, you got to kind of own the place.

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And he never says it from a place of like negativity, like, you have to think that like

you're the best, but he's like, look, they're there to help you.

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You're there to put on a show.

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And if you need something, you got to know who to be touch pointing with.

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And it sounds like.

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He's doing that with you guys.

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Like, hey, when this part happens in the match, try to make sure that you capture it

because of whatever he's got planned going on.

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Right, right.

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He's always, yeah, super, super detailed and that really works.

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Joe Janela also is very nice and he always comes up to us and hey, what's going on?

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I like, you know who I am?

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know, like it's really cool, you know?

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um Yeah.

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But my favorite match, I think, to film, there's been so many, but the one that sticks

out.

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Is Anthony Bowens versus TJ Crawford is a wrestle pro show.

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It was like right when the pandemic I think was just like Starting so like we're outside

and stuff like that, but they did a killer match.

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It's on YouTube, but go check it out Yeah, Anthony Bowen's versus TJ Crawford at wrestle

pro

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That's awesome.

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That's awesome.

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And for me, I love hearing you say that and bringing up Anthony Bowens too.

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Cause just when I started seeing him, I found out about him on AEW.

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I know he's done creative pro.

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I know he's kind of from that system too.

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But like for me, I loved the acclaimed.

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I thought what they did was great.

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But for me, Anthony Bowens always seems to just have such a humble personality.

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And when he gets in the ring, he's one of those guys that dare I say it over the years,

you're going to be like, man,

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this is the guy that they should push and this is the guy they should give that

opportunity to.

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And, you know, they're giving him lots of opportunities.

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I love the fact that he's like such a big AEW spokesperson going to all these different

events.

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Like you really see that they're giving him that exposure.

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And for me, I'm like, you could really see this, not because I don't think he belongs at

the top already, but you could see him in one of those Daniel Bryan type storylines or one

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of those Kofi Kingston things like.

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outpaint him as like, you know, you'll always just be remembered as the acclaimed.

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And he's like, I think the hell not.

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And then all of a sudden he becomes the world champion and carries it.

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Like I believe so much in Anthony Bowens that when you said Anthony Bowens versus TJ

Crawford, no disrespect to TJ Crawford.

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Amazing too.

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But I'm just like, man, let's make all of the, all of the Anthony Bowens love as much love

as you can for that gentleman.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah, he's great.

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Max Caster was great, too.

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GPW actually filmed most of the music videos that they did.

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I was on Buck Hunt when they did that one.

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So there's a shot of them and they're doing like behind a tree.

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They're all doing like one by one, like on the side of the shook crew.

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That was my idea to do.

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So I'm I'm happy that I got that in.

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But yeah, they were all super nice.

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That's so cool.

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And you know, talking about AEW a little bit, you know, you're talking about that you were

able to shoot Anthony Bowens at a show outside of AEW, but you've had your own audio

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experiences being showcased in AEW and, you know, being also representative of some of the

wrestlers.

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And one of the ones that I've always loved from you, and we talked about this before we

got on air, I've talked to you about this throughout the years, was the cover of Better

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Than You that you did for MJF.

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So much to where

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When I first started watching AEW, I'm pretty sure I actually heard your version first.

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And by that I mean, I never paid attention to his theme.

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I don't know why, I just never did.

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And for someone who writes entrance themes, it's kind of weird to say, but anyway.

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I remember hearing your version and being like, man, obviously it's sick when you listen

to it.

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And then hearing it live and I'm like, wait, that's not his theme, what happened?

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And then all of a sudden they're like, well.

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You know, these wolves did the cover of it, Darren did the cover of it.

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And I'm just like, man, this is such a cool one.

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And for you, you could choose all these different songs to do.

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What made you go, okay, cool, better than you is the one that I'm gonna go ahead and do.

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It kind of like snowballed so Originally like when I like got into wrestling like

wrestling Music it was kind of by accident.

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So there's a youtuber named Chris stanker.

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He's now Chris danger and DPW and stuff like that like he's actually trained to be

wrestler and But before that he does like it's a lot of WWE 2k

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Content and he at the time I think it was ww2k19.

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He was like I'm gonna do a new series You know, it's gonna be called wrestle war and I was

like, you're doing a new series I have these songs

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Would you want to use them as like an entry, like a theme song for this thing?

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He's like, yeah, and he heard enough is enough.

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And he was like, this is awesome.

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He's like, have an idea.

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And he rapped over it.

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Like he's like, what do you think of this and he did this I remember it was I was a dream

and then he does this whole thing and I was like that is so awesome and I was like, wow So

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he's like, I use it?

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was like, yeah go ahead So he started using that and it started gaining traction like

people I get a bunch of messages from people who like, you know the wv game saying hey I

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listen to your song all the time.

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Can I use it for my creative wrestler?

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You know, I'm I to YouTube videos like short, right?

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So that kind of spawned the idea of doing MJF when he was starting to come in because this

is like

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Like aw like kind of put the the thought in my head and then when jericho when I think it

was the cruise day That was the first time where they were actually singing judas to him

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and I was like, that would be cool if we got that for njf like I wanted to like Be the the

person like when you hear better than better than better.

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You're like, this freaking guy coming out You know, like I wanted something like that.

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So yeah, it just kind of sparked and I

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put the two together I got AK-40 Devon shout out to him he was super great and yeah I was

like hey I have this idea you know just throwing it at the wall you know why don't we put

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some verses together and and try to do this and it worked out like originally when I I

asked permission for Mikey Ruckus and he was like yeah go ahead just like MJF is probably

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gonna block you once you put it out but don't like don't tag him in it

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And so I didn't and I was just like, okay, well I'm putting it out, just out there.

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then, I like going back, there was a podcast, it the All Elite Podcast, shout out to

Tiffany and Kyle Masters.

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I just reached out and said, hey, I have these songs, would you wanna put it as your theme

song for the All Elite Podcast?

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And they're like, sure.

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And then I was telling them about the MJF song and they were like, yeah, so we're going to

feature it on the show.

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Like I sent them the way file.

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Like, yeah, we're going to feature on the show.

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I was like, oh crap.

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So they feature on the show and they tagged MJF in it.

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And then I immediately got a DM from MJF like send me the song.

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And I was like, oh crap.

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So I sent him the song and then I got like a fire emoji and I was like.

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crap, like he likes it, you know, so that's, that's, that was like the biggest thing for

me.

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And he, like reshared their, their tweet and yeah, it's, it's like super, super awesome

about that.

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So yeah, that's kind of.

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that's the seal of approval from MJF, you know?

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He's like, send me the song, and it's a fire emoji, as opposed to just a giant middle

finger.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And he's used it like on Instagram posts and it works out.

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It'll be like the song on Instagram.

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So he has shared it.

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So I know he's aware of it.

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But yeah, it's super cool to have him give the endorsement, the fire, you know?

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That's awesome.

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love that.

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And it's one of these things, I don't know what's up my throat today.

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That's awesome.

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And I love the fact too, that you're just like, you know, it took on a bit of a life of

its own.

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And you know, when you put stuff out like that, especially like cover tunes and things,

you're like, you don't know where they're going to go.

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And you don't know if the original artist or the wrestler is going to be like, okay, cool.

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Like you don't know what their perception of it is going to be.

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And the fact that MJF heard it and was just like, this is actually really cool.

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You know, for me, one of the biggest things that I remember,

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And this is probably a couple months ago where, probably a couple months ago, I say that

for everything, but like, I remember texting you and being like, I'm pretty sure that the

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crowd is singing the lyrics from your version of better than you.

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Instead of just using the dig deep dadadada.

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They're probably singing better than, but it wasn't me trying to like put these wolves

into the universe, but I was just like, it doesn't sound like dadadada that the crowds

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singing.

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It sounds like they know it.

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And I'm like,

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That's happened a couple times.

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So I'm pretty sure that not just MJF, but I feel like a lot of people in the crowd and you

know, maybe a lot of it is also due to like the 2K25 and 24 and those things, cause that

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music can get used there too in the uploads.

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You know, I think that that's really powerful to be like your theme and your version of it

is almost just as synonymous as the original track that he uses for AEW.

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That's so cool, man.

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Thank you, yeah.

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It's like a dream come true that he would even just listen to it.

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So the fact that people have caught on and has almost 2 million streams on Spotify and has

never been featured on an AEW TV at all, that's crazy to me.

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And it's crazy too that it's also like, there's two of the two really great themes in

wrestling that are library tracks that I know of, right?

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You could say three and I'll throw it in because we just had Eric Young on the show.

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The sanity theme was part of a library track and then they developed it out from there

with Bray Wyatt, the two pieces of music that he used for...

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The one he used when he was doing Firefly Funhouse, that part of it.

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And then the other one, was the Live in Fear, I believe those were both library tracks

too.

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And then Dig Deep, the MJF one.

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It's like, as much as I'm always like, yes, come to one of us, come to an entrance theme

composer, like you or me or TZ or any of us.

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It's like, you know, sometimes you will get that banger and then you see it and then you

expand upon it you're just like, man, it's really cool to see.

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And also you haven't just taken that theme.

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But for one of my favorite wrestlers, you did a great rendition of hang man Adam Page's

theme done by the one and only Vincent Padula.

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And you came up with this dead to rights theme, which is just super cool.

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And we had Vincent on the show a little bit ago and we talked to him about those.

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They're like, Hey, have you heard the these wolves version of it?

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And he's just like, yeah, it's awesome.

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I don't know why he would want to cover little old me, but

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I'm really happy.

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The thing that I loved about him too, is he was just like, it's cool that I wrote it in

the style that I write in.

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And then Darren took it and wrote it in the style that he writes in.

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And it's just as awesome.

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So I love the fact that like, he recognized like these wolves does this awesome rock metal

vibe and it works just as well.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, that was actually Mikey Ruckus's idea.

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after the MJF thing, he had that port in time where he's using that sting, you know, I'm

better than you and you know it.

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And then it would just kick in.

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So I was like, Hey, you know, can I put

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the thing on the top and just like release it on YouTube because people keep asking me for

it, you know, because they want an update and he's like, why it's not that why don't you

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do hangman pages theme?

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I want to hear that.

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And I was like, what?

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So I started to do it and yeah, it's like it's like I was like, OK, so it was kind of like

it was slower.

264

: 00:18:06

So I wanted to bring up the tempo a little bit and then

265

: 00:18:08

Yeah, just kinda, I just kinda just made it like, you know, made a little child out of it

and just, yeah, I was like, Vince Badula is very respected to me.

266

: 00:18:21

So like, I thought like when I came to him, he was gonna rip it apart and be like, yeah,

you can't use it.

267

: 00:18:26

And you know, you know, I'm an actual real musician, you know, but yeah, he was super nice

about it.

268

: 00:18:32

Cause he's done a bunch of.

269

: 00:18:34

stuff for tv and stuff i'm just you know a stupid wrestling mark so i uh uh yeah i was

super happy about it but uh yeah it just came together so well um and the hardest part was

270

: 00:18:49

coming up for lyrics for that because uh like at the time i was like i don't know how to

express like what hangman page is

271

: 00:18:58

You know, and that's kind of like listening to your podcast, like we need to figure out a

way to tell a story within, you know, three and a half minutes or less, you know, because

272

: 00:19:08

we're walking out to it like, and we have to display the character, like the essence of

the character, you know, and that's very difficult to do.

273

: 00:19:17

So lyrically, it was very hard to think of, you know, what Hanging Man Page is and how to,

you know, make that come together.

274

: 00:19:26

took me forever to write.

275

: 00:19:29

And I was going to say that too, because you have these two songs that you've done, right?

276

: 00:19:33

And these are representative of Hangman Page and MJF.

277

: 00:19:36

And for you, you're like, okay, cool.

278

: 00:19:38

These are instrumental tracks so far.

279

: 00:19:40

They don't have songs with lyrics and you're taking content that kind of already exists in

a way and making it your own, right?

280

: 00:19:47

So a lot of the musicality that comes in Dead to Rights obviously comes from Ghost Town

Triumph and things like that, right?

281

: 00:19:54

So for you,

282

: 00:19:55

You're not just sitting there being like, okay, cool.

283

: 00:19:57

How do I, for lack of a better term, rockify or metal-fy a lot of these songs?

284

: 00:20:02

You're also just like, I'm adding an additional layer of, okay, let's really explain who

this character is at this point too.

285

: 00:20:09

And for someone like Adam, with someone like Adam Page, he's such the, in my opinion, main

character of AEW, whether he's on TV or not.

286

: 00:20:19

You know, he's such the main character of this person coming from...

287

: 00:20:24

Basically, yeah, he was part of the Bullet Club, but he was like the side guy, you know

what I mean?

288

: 00:20:28

And then all of a sudden they really have done a great job at building him over the years.

289

: 00:20:32

And in a way that they haven't really built wrestlers ever.

290

: 00:20:36

Like he's just, in a way, he's just kind of a normal guy.

291

: 00:20:39

Like everything that happens with him, it's kind of like, you could understand why it

happens.

292

: 00:20:45

And it's like the modern guy, like we always talk about.

293

: 00:20:47

something I love in TV when you see like really well written shows, one of my favorite

shows ever is a show called the hundred.

294

: 00:20:53

And I like shows that have consequences that people have to live with because then you

have to understand, okay, cool, like if this happens, then this happens, and what are the

295

: 00:21:02

consequences of that?

296

: 00:21:03

Walking Dead, I'm looking at you introducing in season five, six, seven, and eight, one

character that you only have to care about for four episodes, and then you off them

297

: 00:21:10

because you don't really wanna off the main characters.

298

: 00:21:13

I digress.

299

: 00:21:13

But someone like Adam Page ends up getting this whole story of like, hey, I've gone

through these losses, here's what happened.

300

: 00:21:20

He goes through the swerve story.

301

: 00:21:21

Yeah, you've done this stuff to my kid and now I'm a really bad guy, but you can kind of

understand why he is.

302

: 00:21:28

But now he's so bad that he puts Christopher Daniels into retirement.

303

: 00:21:31

And for you, you got to encapsulate that in three and a half minutes.

304

: 00:21:35

So that's gotta be a crazy thing, yeah.

305

: 00:21:38

Yeah, it's I think my favorite line of the Dead to Rights is Heavy Metal meets Johnny Cash

because I was listening to a lot of Wage War and they have a song called Johnny Cash and

306

: 00:21:47

that just kept like playing in my head like I need to like he's just like at the time he's

very high octane like Super like a lot of flashy moves like yeah, he's basically Heavy

307

: 00:21:59

Metal meets Johnny Cash, you know, so that's my favorite line from that but yeah trying to

encapsulate that same thing with MJF like

308

: 00:22:07

AK-40 Devon, shout out to him again, like he wasn't wrestling fan.

309

: 00:22:11

So it was like kind of like trying to put all like the MJF like character points in there,

like the diamond ring and like just trying to get that point across that I'm better than

310

: 00:22:24

you and you know it across.

311

: 00:22:26

Yeah, that's like, that's what I was trying to do the entire time, you know, so.

312

: 00:22:31

I love that.

313

: 00:22:32

And then you've also had your music featured in different places in AEW too.

314

: 00:22:35

So not just, hey, here's a song representing a character, but Lee Johnson was using music

that you wrote for him as well.

315

: 00:22:43

You've had some of your music in some of those production pieces that they do for AEW.

316

: 00:22:47

So for you, you haven't just done music that's representative of the talent that the

talent has heard.

317

: 00:22:53

You've also gone ahead and had your music as entrance themes as well and parts of packages

for AEW.

318

: 00:23:00

Yeah, the first one was for MJF versus Cody for Revolution 2020.

319

: 00:23:06

Their match, their promo video before the match, that was Dead to Me, which is original

song.

320

: 00:23:12

Lee Johnson over the pandemic was using Enough is Enough.

321

: 00:23:15

And then he went to my family and then he had a new theme and then he went to a different

one and then he started using again, Enough is Enough.

322

: 00:23:24

And now I think he's back to

323

: 00:23:26

the nightmare family one so but yeah and and for hanging man page after dead to rise that

showed Mikey I was like it took me way longer than it was supposed to but here it is he's

324

: 00:23:36

like this is awesome like I'm gonna use it for the countdown show for CM Punk versus

hanging man page at double or nothing so that and I'm like awesome you know like it's just

325

: 00:23:45

getting just getting you know your music heard and and you know having people react is

326

: 00:23:51

awesome to me.

327

: 00:23:52

Like I kind of never had that before.

328

: 00:23:54

I was always like in bands like

329

: 00:23:56

Just like local bands like no one really cares about and stuff like that.

330

: 00:24:00

So it's awesome to like just find that sense of community and have people like actually

interact with your song where, you know, same thing with Vincent Padula like saying like,

331

: 00:24:10

you know, Darren took my song and made it, you know, different and more rock, you know,

having people use it in TikToks or Instagram reels or, you know, they're showing the

332

: 00:24:20

action figures and stuff and making like stop stop motion animations with it and stuff

like that and use it.

333

: 00:24:26

that as the music for it.

334

: 00:24:28

It's crazy, you know?

335

: 00:24:31

Yeah, and I think that, you know, what you said is true also about like the kind of

dichotomy between the original music and being in bands versus what we kind of do in the

336

: 00:24:41

wrestling scene also.

337

: 00:24:42

And I think we'll always put out original music.

338

: 00:24:44

I'll always, you know, always have that spot for what means something to us.

339

: 00:24:47

And we'll always continue to do that.

340

: 00:24:49

Some leaning more towards that than whatever the case may be, right?

341

: 00:24:53

But I've always felt like within the last couple of years, as I've been really focused on

entrance music,

342

: 00:24:58

I've been really happy with the wrestling fandom around entrance music.

343

: 00:25:05

it's one of those things where it's so, wrestling fans are so passionate in general and

wrestling fans are equally passionate about entrance music.

344

: 00:25:13

And it's so crazy to see, you know, for me, I've played in lots of different bands.

345

: 00:25:18

I've played, my music's been in different places.

346

: 00:25:20

You know, a lot of people, you can go on my website and see the bio, right?

347

: 00:25:24

But for me,

348

: 00:25:25

One of the coolest things has always been seeing a wrestler that's used a piece of music

of mine and seeing the crowd jam to it.

349

: 00:25:32

Like one of my favorite ones was with Mercedes Martinez when she did, I've done a bunch of

themes with her and big shout out to Mercedes Martinez.

350

: 00:25:39

I love you.

351

: 00:25:40

You're great.

352

: 00:25:40

Keep killing it.

353

: 00:25:41

Cause you keep crushing it.

354

: 00:25:42

And when we would do all these different themes like OGBA was, Breast City Sleep was the

most recent one.

355

: 00:25:48

And then the one she did with Diamante.

356

: 00:25:50

It was really cool because like you see the crowd getting into it you see the music

affecting people in a different way, but the talent is bringing that out in them too.

357

: 00:25:58

And it's like, you can be performing and be touching people in the moment, but being able

to see how they're reacting live in kind of even more of like that movie TV score.

358

: 00:26:08

Cause what we're really doing is we are creating that music bed for a show in a way,

whether it's even a live performance or whether it's on TV, that's what we're doing.

359

: 00:26:17

is we're creating a soundtrack for somebody to come out to and represent them.

360

: 00:26:22

I think that there is such a cool thing about that.

361

: 00:26:24

And I've talked to you about it now.

362

: 00:26:26

I've talked to Teezy.

363

: 00:26:26

I've talked to Mikey.

364

: 00:26:27

I've talked to everybody who's done this to some degree.

365

: 00:26:30

And I think we all say the same thing.

366

: 00:26:32

It's like being able to see your music take on a life of its own and then inspire people

to do something connected with a talent that you've worked with.

367

: 00:26:40

like, it's such a different thing.

368

: 00:26:42

And I want to speak about one thing that you had brought up, the pandemic era.

369

: 00:26:46

because shout a big shout out to AEW on this and I will shout AEW out for this for years.

370

: 00:26:55

I think without AEW having such a focus on the independents and even independent creators

and early on also having such a collaborative process, the entrance theme composers would

371

: 00:27:07

be a lot smaller of a pool.

372

: 00:27:09

And think Mikey has always kind of recognized that.

373

: 00:27:11

And again, big shout out to Mikey, as I've said.

374

: 00:27:14

Many times before we are a music and wrestling podcast, but partially also a Mikey

Ruckistan show at times.

375

: 00:27:21

And I am completely fine with that.

376

: 00:27:23

you know, when the pandemic came, I remember when they were doing dark and maybe a little

before that too, but they were doing dark and dark elevation and Danny Jordan needed a

377

: 00:27:32

theme.

378

: 00:27:32

And I remember I got a text from Mikey.

379

: 00:27:34

He was like, do you have any music that you can send me in like five minutes?

380

: 00:27:37

And I was like, my God, I can send it in three.

381

: 00:27:40

Like I was like, what do I even have?

382

: 00:27:42

And so it was like,

383

: 00:27:43

a couple songs from my first record of Oceans.

384

: 00:27:46

And Danny Jordan came out using a song called Farewell, which was from my 2011 release.

385

: 00:27:50

And I was like, man, it wasn't just me.

386

: 00:27:53

It was a lot of us who were reached out to, to have some music being used for it.

387

: 00:27:57

And I think that without that, a lot of entrance theme composers are getting a little less

exposure.

388

: 00:28:05

But I think AEW's focus, even now, and even back then, to be able to bring in the wider

world of wrestling.

389

: 00:28:12

really gave musicians an opportunity to be heard in a way that they wouldn't have been

heard before.

390

: 00:28:19

Exactly.

391

: 00:28:19

Going back to what you were saying about, you know, wrestling fans being so passionate,

like I grew up on like the WF the music, you know, volume three and then like the forcible

392

: 00:28:29

entry and like the reckless intent.

393

: 00:28:31

Like I always loved bands like doing wrestling themes and, know, to be like associated

with that now is like super humbling and it's like, it's just so awesome.

394

: 00:28:42

But yeah, it's it's just

395

: 00:28:44

It's just

396

: 00:28:45

crazy that how and shout out to monkey ruckus like i know you know he's got roh and aw and

he's writing all these themes like pretty crazy and he gets a lot of crap on x or twitter

397

: 00:28:58

or whatever about some of the themes and like it is like he's he's a madman and he's he's

awesome at what he does and i wouldn't like i don't think i could ever do what he does at

398

: 00:29:11

the quality that he he does it he

399

: 00:29:13

He's just amazing.

400

: 00:29:14

Same thing with Downstate.

401

: 00:29:16

I'm a huge Downstate fan.

402

: 00:29:18

They are the pinnacle of what a wrestling kind band should be.

403

: 00:29:23

But yeah, it's just crazy.

404

: 00:29:26

I'm just very happy to be associated with you and Montesey.

405

: 00:29:31

Shout out Montesey for working with me on the LA Night theme song, Let Me Talk To Ya.

406

: 00:29:37

It's just crazy.

407

: 00:29:39

Yeah.

408

: 00:29:39

And it's, it's become such an awesome community too.

409

: 00:29:42

And yeah, the Downstate Boys, absolute shout out.

410

: 00:29:45

It's a, when you think about entrance music, there's a lot of ways you can go.

411

: 00:29:49

And I just love to, I just honestly, I love to see what everyone keeps putting out because

all of us have such different vibes and different flavors of what we put out.

412

: 00:29:57

And I think I've said this on the episode with Montesey or no, I said it when the episode

with Josiah Williams, I've always tend to come from like a very composer background where

413

: 00:30:06

it's like.

414

: 00:30:07

Okay, like I don't have, let's say the John Kiernan signature sound for a theme, but like

I do a lot of orchestra and then jazz track and then a trap track.

415

: 00:30:16

So for me, I'm always like, okay, cool.

416

: 00:30:17

Like what a wrestler needs is that.

417

: 00:30:19

But I always feel like, and I said this to Zach, was like, I feel like with you guys, when

people come to you, they know what they're getting and it's going to obviously sound like

418

: 00:30:28

what makes sense for a wrestler, but it's going to sound like downstate.

419

: 00:30:32

And I think that there's a lot of beautiful things in all of that.

420

: 00:30:35

And when you think about.

421

: 00:30:36

modern entrance music.

422

: 00:30:38

There's a couple of guys.

423

: 00:30:39

There's a couple of people out there who are crushing it.

424

: 00:30:41

Mikey, obviously, yeah, to be able to write music and like, Hey, this guy's coming in.

425

: 00:30:45

You got 45 minutes to write a song.

426

: 00:30:47

I guess I do.

427

: 00:30:48

It's always, it's always cool to see.

428

: 00:30:50

I, I told him, I'm like, I had to do one in about the same time.

429

: 00:30:53

And it was one of these things where, United Wrestling Network, they were doing a

championship wrestling and they were like, all right, cool.

430

: 00:31:00

We need a theme.

431

: 00:31:00

We'll let you know.

432

: 00:31:01

We need them.

433

: 00:31:01

Like, all right, cool.

434

: 00:31:02

All of a sudden.

435

: 00:31:04

about a half hour before they need to put it to print.

436

: 00:31:06

They're like, yeah, how's that theme coming?

437

: 00:31:08

I'm like, I haven't worked on it because you haven't told me what the deadline was.

438

: 00:31:10

They're like, can you get it done in like an hour?

439

: 00:31:13

like, I just so happened to put my child to sleep.

440

: 00:31:16

So yes, we can do it in an hour.

441

: 00:31:18

like that kind of stuff happens more than you would assume.

442

: 00:31:21

But you hear all these different stories from everybody.

443

: 00:31:23

And to be able to do this at such high quality, high pace like Mikey does, like downstate

like you do, like we all.

444

: 00:31:30

have really gotten the opportunity to do, it had all of ourselves on the back for that.

445

: 00:31:34

So in a very, like not to Masochampa way, but like in a very us way.

446

: 00:31:39

So, and you brought up the LA night theme too.

447

: 00:31:43

And I want to kind of dive a little bit more into some of those.

448

: 00:31:45

First off, I will give you my apologies on air.

449

: 00:31:48

I suck at responding to texts sometimes and I'm just like two kids is a wild

accomplishment.

450

: 00:31:52

And I'm like being able to get them down, but we got to collab on tracks.

451

: 00:31:56

Absolutely.

452

: 00:31:57

drop me messages and be like, hey, ding dong, you said you were going to do this.

453

: 00:32:01

And I'll be like, yeah, I get it.

454

: 00:32:04

That's me.

455

: 00:32:05

a little backstory.

456

: 00:32:06

John, you were supposed to do the solo at the end of Let Me Talk To Ya.

457

: 00:32:11

So unfortunately, it's me who's doing the solo on the end of it.

458

: 00:32:16

it sounds awesome.

459

: 00:32:17

But yeah, we gotta work on something.

460

: 00:32:20

You put me in touch with Montese, because another backstory, he was talking about Sammy

Guevara and possibly having a live band.

461

: 00:32:29

I was supposed to be the bass player in that band.

462

: 00:32:31

So yeah.

463

: 00:32:33

But yeah, shout out to you.

464

: 00:32:35

Yeah, but we need to collaborate on something.

465

: 00:32:39

Something big.

466

: 00:32:40

But don't sell yourself short on that.

467

: 00:32:42

That LA Night track is awesome.

468

: 00:32:44

The solo is awesome.

469

: 00:32:46

And you you've done the LA Night track with TZ.

470

: 00:32:49

You have the Liv Morgan track that you did with Reality Suite.

471

: 00:32:52

I love the fact that, again, not just with the AEW tracks, but with all these other

tracks, you have such an interesting take on how these should go.

472

: 00:33:02

And you know, I...

473

: 00:33:04

From what I remember, I'm pretty sure that LA Knight and Liv Morgan saw those too.

474

: 00:33:09

Yes, yeah, lip morgan responded, after I posted it it's actually on her instagram story

like the the ad like the go listen to this It's actually on there.

475

: 00:33:19

You know, she's she was super nice when I was like, hey, you know dming her hey, so i'm

not a weird fan, but I did a song and Kimmy so basically the the backstory on that is

476

: 00:33:34

reality suites bassist, had a knee injury and

477

: 00:33:37

they had a bunch of shows.

478

: 00:33:40

So they asked me to fill in and while we were rehearsing for that Kimmy was like, oh, I

used to work with a wrestler because I was talking about the MJF song and they're like,

479

: 00:33:50

yeah, I used to work with, do you know who Liv Morgan is?

480

: 00:33:55

And I was like, hell yeah, I do.

481

: 00:33:58

So she's like, yeah, know, funny coincidence.

482

: 00:34:01

And I was like, oh, I was like, yeah, it would probably be cool if like we made a version.

483

: 00:34:07

like a reality suite version of Liv Morgan's theme.

484

: 00:34:11

So went home, I listened to her theme and I was like I think I can do this.

485

: 00:34:16

So I started watching like a bunch of her promos and stuff like that.

486

: 00:34:20

So a lot of the lyrics to that song are lines that she said in her promos like

487

: 00:34:26

I'm blanking out now, but I'm not typical and stuff like that.

488

: 00:34:30

And at the time she was trying to get more extreme and more, you know, evil.

489

: 00:34:36

So yeah, lot of stuff.

490

: 00:34:37

Yeah, just I watched that Liv Morgan documentary.

491

: 00:34:40

I think it was on the network or Peacock or something like that, like a bunch of times

just trying to get inspiration for it.

492

: 00:34:46

But yeah, it turned out really well.

493

: 00:34:48

And shout out to Kimmy.

494

: 00:34:50

She killed it on that song.

495

: 00:34:52

That's awesome.

496

: 00:34:53

And if you guys haven't heard reality suite before reality suite, think has been a staple

in Jersey for the last almost, almost decade now.

497

: 00:35:00

You know, they've done so much amazing work.

498

: 00:35:02

They've just gotten you joining the band.

499

: 00:35:04

So that continues to up the stock of reality suite.

500

: 00:35:07

Cause again, great players attract great players.

501

: 00:35:10

And so if you haven't checked out reality suite, go on Spotify, go on Apple, go on all

these different places and check them out.

502

: 00:35:16

It's awesome.

503

: 00:35:17

And.

504

: 00:35:17

You know what I love is to be able to see that like there is that little connection.

505

: 00:35:21

And you know, for those who don't know Liv Morgan is from the Jersey area, I'm pretty

sure, or at least has some tangential connection to New Jersey.

506

: 00:35:29

But yeah, Liv Morgan is from Jersey.

507

: 00:35:32

So it's really cool to be like, okay, you have a Jersey band covering the Jersey girl.

508

: 00:35:36

And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, here we are.

509

: 00:35:39

And it's just such a cool one.

510

: 00:35:41

For you, when you're putting lyrics down,

511

: 00:35:43

for Liv Morgan.

512

: 00:35:44

It's the same thing that we talked about earlier, right?

513

: 00:35:46

You're putting lyrics with a song that's your version, but didn't necessarily have that

same storytelling lyric driven before you.

514

: 00:35:55

And the same thing with LA Knight.

515

: 00:35:57

Now, if I know Montese, did you write the lyrics for Teezy or did Teezy say, no, no, no, I

got it.

516

: 00:36:02

And he's just, he riffs.

517

: 00:36:04

Yeah, he I was like I sent him a demo

518

: 00:36:08

Usually when I write I'll send him a demo of what I was working on and then I was like

this is kind of the song structure of how goes and then I go with shout out to Stephen

519

: 00:36:19

Kellner in the burn room recording that's where I record all the stuff to make it sound

you know crazy but I was like this is this is my demo the song it's gonna sound better

520

: 00:36:27

than what the demo is but you know and he was like yeah I got this and I was like okay

521

: 00:36:34

And then so I started working on the instrumental track and I just had, you know, the the

courses and I just was like, here you go.

522

: 00:36:43

You know, he's like, how many verses should I do?

523

: 00:36:45

was like, well, I think there's two.

524

: 00:36:47

So he's like, OK, I got it.

525

: 00:36:49

I was like, OK.

526

: 00:36:50

And I've never met him before.

527

: 00:36:51

He lives in Florida.

528

: 00:36:52

And I was like, OK, here it is like with.

529

: 00:36:56

AK-40 Devon, like he was in the studio with me and I worked with him and stuff like that.

530

: 00:36:59

But this he's like, yeah, I got it.

531

: 00:37:01

And he killed it.

532

: 00:37:03

one take, I think like he did like one and a half kind of verses and then like I took like

the ending of the first verse and made it the end of the second verse as well.

533

: 00:37:12

So it's kind of like a hook, but.

534

: 00:37:14

That was it.

535

: 00:37:14

was like copy and paste.

536

: 00:37:16

was amazing.

537

: 00:37:17

Like he was so easy to work with and you know shout out to Monty.

538

: 00:37:21

Well, he's the theme song king like he says.

539

: 00:37:25

So like I don't know why I was worried.

540

: 00:37:27

So.

541

: 00:37:27

Working with Teezy is always so fun too because for me it's breaking out of a way that I

usually work because for me I'm very much just like I like to live and die on my own

542

: 00:37:37

sword.

543

: 00:37:37

I record everything in my home studio and so for me I'm always just like okay cool if I

can't do it or I work with somebody who doesn't have a home studio meaning like they don't

544

: 00:37:48

have the ability to turn something fairly quickly around it's hard for me right because I

need to be able to

545

: 00:37:54

It's kind of like that whole, need to be able to know when things are happening to

schedule things and whatnot.

546

: 00:37:59

And with Teasy, Teasy goes to a studio and even then I'm like, all right, cool.

547

: 00:38:04

Like, what are we doing?

548

: 00:38:05

And I give him one was my favorite one I've worked on him with was the Dragon Lee track

pre-WWE.

549

: 00:38:10

I went ahead and wrote that and sent it over to Teasy and I didn't really, I didn't give

him any lyrics and he's like, yeah, I got it.

550

: 00:38:16

Like, all right.

551

: 00:38:17

And so.

552

: 00:38:18

What I usually ask people for is I go, hey, give me a breakdown of the individual tracks,

but then also bounce me a rough version so I can kind of hear where everything lays out.

553

: 00:38:26

Right.

554

: 00:38:26

So it's just in case the track doesn't line up with our DAW or whatever.

555

: 00:38:31

Here's what we do.

556

: 00:38:32

And he sent it back to me.

557

: 00:38:34

And I'm like, this is amazing, but nothing is placed in a place.

558

: 00:38:38

And he's like, Oh, I figured you'll just place it where you want it.

559

: 00:38:41

And I'm like, what?

560

: 00:38:44

So I'm sitting there with these lyrics that you're awesome.

561

: 00:38:46

And I'm like,

562

: 00:38:47

Okay, I got to build a chorus.

563

: 00:38:48

I got to build this and whatnot.

564

: 00:38:49

But like, he gives you such good stuff that when it lays out, you're like, okay, cool.

565

: 00:38:54

This, this makes total sense.

566

: 00:38:56

And, you know, I, gotta say again, work with TZ.

567

: 00:38:59

Yeah, it's just, he's awesome.

568

: 00:39:01

He knows the assignment and he does it as you've heard with any of the music that he's

done in wrestling outside of wrestling and sports and whatever.

569

: 00:39:08

So it's just like, he knows what he's doing for me.

570

: 00:39:12

Any fear that I had was simply a me thing where I'm like, all right, what are we doing?

571

: 00:39:16

I've never worked like this before, but TZ's got it.

572

: 00:39:18

Yeah, totally.

573

: 00:39:20

Yeah, he's, you know, a pro, you know?

574

: 00:39:22

So, yeah.

575

: 00:39:23

Again, I think, yeah, it was just the one thing.

576

: 00:39:27

I think he just kept saying, like, LA NIGHT at the end.

577

: 00:39:30

And I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to just put the first half of the first verse

that he did and put it in the second verse as well.

578

: 00:39:38

So it's a hook.

579

: 00:39:38

And then, like, there was like a lip smack that he did.

580

: 00:39:41

I took that out.

581

: 00:39:42

That was it.

582

: 00:39:42

Perfect.

583

: 00:39:43

Done.

584

: 00:39:43

You know, so yeah, total professional.

585

: 00:39:46

He was awesome.

586

: 00:39:47

I love that.

587

: 00:39:48

And it's crazy too, because you think about all the music that has been done and even just

between you and I, and it's cool to be able to talk to different people who have done

588

: 00:39:57

this, who have done covers, who have had themes done and whatnot.

589

: 00:40:00

And it's just like, you know, when I talked to Downstate, okay, between myself and them,

there's such this collection of music, both not wrestling related, wrestling related, and

590

: 00:40:08

like wrestling tangential.

591

: 00:40:10

With you and I, it's the same thing.

592

: 00:40:12

With Mikey and I, it's the same thing.

593

: 00:40:14

Mikey, you have to come on the show.

594

: 00:40:15

would love to have you on the show.

595

: 00:40:16

Jim Johnston too.

596

: 00:40:17

We're going to talk.

597

: 00:40:18

so all of these different things, right?

598

: 00:40:20

Like all of these different people have this wealth of music and to think like, man,

there's still hundreds and thousands of wrestlers out there to work with that need music.

599

: 00:40:31

And there's still plenty of music over time that hasn't been re-imagined that you can

reimagine in all sorts of different ways.

600

: 00:40:38

It's an exciting time for music and wrestling to have this little,

601

: 00:40:41

It's a little marriage together, so it's super cool.

602

: 00:40:44

Yeah, it's really cool.

603

: 00:40:46

yeah, again, the fans are so passionate and stuff.

604

: 00:40:49

And yeah, we're just trying to make everything better.

605

: 00:40:53

that way, the wrestling promoters don't get sued for using like enter Sandman and stuff

like that.

606

: 00:40:59

And they can come to us and we can just help them tell a story.

607

: 00:41:04

And that's basically the whole thing.

608

: 00:41:06

It's just telling the story.

609

: 00:41:08

Absolutely.

610

: 00:41:09

And to any wrestling promoters listening to this, please do not get sued.

611

: 00:41:14

Do not get sued.

612

: 00:41:16

Do not do as the first person I ever wrote a theme for said, do not play music and hope

you don't get sued and do not play end of heartache and hope that the next person does not

613

: 00:41:25

come out to end of heartache also.

614

: 00:41:27

Two things that really helped launch the music for me.

615

: 00:41:30

It's like, hey, these guys just play music and hope that they don't get hit by the

licensed police.

616

: 00:41:34

And then the other thing is,

617

: 00:41:36

A lot of people like the same song, so sometimes two wrestlers can come out to the same

theme back to back.

618

: 00:41:40

Make it original, make it legal, do all that.

619

: 00:41:43

Now, totally talking on a separate side, we're gonna end with two questions here.

620

: 00:41:48

One of them being one that we talked about before, one that we didn't.

621

: 00:41:51

And by the way, to Ben Eller, thank you so much for this question, because this is now

going to be a staple of the show going forward.

622

: 00:41:59

So if you had to put together a WrestleMania card, three matches,

623

: 00:42:04

with musicians, what would some of those matches be?

624

: 00:42:08

I would say the first thing that comes to my head because it's like so niche is I'm a huge

fan of the band Wage War and there was like a little bit of controversy with a song by

625

: 00:42:19

Architects like they kind of had the same riff in it, low and I think it's Doomsday from

Architects.

626

: 00:42:26

So that would be the first match is a 10-man like tag battle royal thing of whoever wins

gets the right to say they came up with it first because I know Cody

627

: 00:42:38

Who's one of my favorite songwriters right now from wage war he's written for?

628

: 00:42:43

Falling in reverse all these big like metal metal core hooks But he's like yeah, so I

wrote this riff like four years ago and trying to play it to to The podcast around his

629

: 00:42:52

iPhone like this notes app and stuff like that.

630

: 00:42:54

So yeah, that that's very niche, but I think it would be cool Let's see another one

631

: 00:43:00

That's really, really hard.

632

: 00:43:01

I guess John Cunin versus me.

633

: 00:43:03

That would be a good one.

634

: 00:43:05

It just be a lot of this.

635

: 00:43:09

Yeah, yes.

636

: 00:43:10

Which I'm still owed, by the way.

637

: 00:43:12

We're never going to let that die 10, 20 years down the line on one of our headstones.

638

: 00:43:16

It's going to be like, I still owe him Balaguer or he still owns me Balaguer.

639

: 00:43:21

Yeah, and to clue in he has this white bela-gare Hyperion guitar that I was wanting for so

long and I saw him He posted a picture with and I was like you mother

640

: 00:43:33

And funny story about that one too.

641

: 00:43:35

It was right when I was in transition of looking into a new company for, you know, working

with and whatnot.

642

: 00:43:41

And always shout out to the Ballagher fam.

643

: 00:43:43

I can honestly say I've never worked with a company that's been just so awesome to

artists, so artist focused and make such dope instruments.

644

: 00:43:52

And for me, I don't know what it is, but like I saw the Hyperion online and I'm like, man,

that thing's actually really cool.

645

: 00:43:59

And so I ended up scooping that one up and it came and I was just like, I've always wanted

flying V guitars, but I've never had the Cajones to buy one because I sit to play guitar a

646

: 00:44:11

lot.

647

: 00:44:11

So I've always kind of gone with like the strat style.

648

: 00:44:13

And I'm like, this is the first kind of wild sized guitar or not wild sized, a wild shaped

guitar that I got.

649

: 00:44:20

And I was like, man, this thing is unbelievable.

650

: 00:44:24

And so then I reached out to them like, Hey, here's my story.

651

: 00:44:26

Here's what it is.

652

: 00:44:27

And

653

: 00:44:27

They were like, yeah, we can work and this and that.

654

: 00:44:29

now literally it's like, if I look over here, there's five Hyperions just because I really

liked that guitar shape.

655

: 00:44:38

I'm like, dude, never before has it been like, quality to quality to quality.

656

: 00:44:42

So if anyone's in the market for guitars, Balaguer, you still have a third match that you

got to do.

657

: 00:44:47

I would say Montese versus AK-40 Devon just because I'm just looking at stuff or like

Mikey Ruckus versus Jim Johnson would be a good one for like the king of the wrestling

658

: 00:44:59

songwriters.

659

: 00:45:00

um Yeah, so those.

660

: 00:45:03

Yeah, that's one to pick.

661

: 00:45:06

I dig on that.

662

: 00:45:07

would even say, I'll throw one in there too.

663

: 00:45:10

I would say, man, there's so many right now.

664

: 00:45:14

Bullet for my Valentine versus Trivium.

665

: 00:45:16

Not because of anything going on, but both two records that I love to death, The Poison

and Ascendancy.

666

: 00:45:21

Those are the highlights of this last tour.

667

: 00:45:23

And you know what?

668

: 00:45:24

It's like battle for open seven, eight supremacy in metal core.

669

: 00:45:29

You boys totally down for that.

670

: 00:45:31

I would love that.

671

: 00:45:32

that'd be a really good one.

672

: 00:45:33

And then I've always thought a really good one would even be.

673

: 00:45:38

CFOs versus Mikey Ruckus because I feel like those two are like the real modern things

that a lot of us think about when it comes to modern entrance themes and I'd be like,

674

: 00:45:47

yeah, okay, there'd be a handicap match.

675

: 00:45:49

I'm fine with that.

676

: 00:45:50

You could probably merge the CFO guys into one person for all intents and purposes of this

match.

677

: 00:45:55

A 12 foot CFO versus a six foot Mikey Ruckus.

678

: 00:45:58

Mikey, tell me if you're six feet or not.

679

: 00:45:59

I don't know, but you know, you get to have then someone in your corner, Mikey.

680

: 00:46:04

That's totally fine.

681

: 00:46:05

Whoever you want.

682

: 00:46:07

It would be you.

683

: 00:46:08

maybe, maybe me, maybe you.

684

: 00:46:11

And then final question I have before I leave and I ask everybody this, if you had to make

a Spotify playlist of three songs that represent Darren Fisher, what would those three

685

: 00:46:21

songs be?

686

: 00:46:23

Do you mean like entrance themes or just songs in general?

687

: 00:46:28

wow.

688

: 00:46:29

Probably like...

689

: 00:46:30

Probably an Nirvana song like Radio Fridley, Unit Shifter or something like that.

690

: 00:46:34

Something noisy and just cool.

691

: 00:46:36

I'm gonna go back to Wage War.

692

: 00:46:38

Probably just something off like the Manic record or the newest one, Stigma.

693

: 00:46:44

I'll say like Blur since that's I think their newest big single.

694

: 00:46:48

And then something like either like a Dunkin' Cheeks song like the Acoustic Singer

songwriter or like Elliott Smith, like the 90s like

695

: 00:46:57

really sad songs like so if you listen to like these wolves that isn't Like a wrestling

theme it's usually either like a rock song or it's like a super sad You know my girlfriend

696

: 00:47:09

at the time hates me or whatever song or you know, I'm a sad boy kind of song I love all

that kind of stuff.

697

: 00:47:15

So yeah, those those would be the three

698

: 00:47:18

And I love how you brought up Duncan Sheik too, because Barely Breathing is such a good

song.

699

: 00:47:22

All of us know it, who are of that era.

700

: 00:47:24

Elliot Smith, feel like is just such a good artist, just straight through.

701

: 00:47:27

Pick any Elliot Smith song.

702

: 00:47:29

Incredibly underrated.

703

: 00:47:32

Yeah, that's like I got into Duncan Sheik like by accident my my girlfriend of time I was

just starting to play guitar and I was writing was trying to write songs for myself and

704

: 00:47:42

she was like, you you sound like and I was like, I'm expecting like Kurt Cobain or like

Lane Staley and she's like Duncan Sheik and I went who and so I was like, whatever and we

705

: 00:47:52

got into an argument and I was like, you know, whatever and I took

706

: 00:47:55

some CDs like it was the Incubus City and one of the CDs I took was Duncan Cheek and I was

like you know this is I don't sound like him and I put it in my CD player in the car and I

707

: 00:48:05

was like I like this song.

708

: 00:48:07

It was like, She Runs Away, was like self-titled, that was like his first single.

709

: 00:48:12

it was like, and then like Barely Breathing and like Reasons for Living.

710

: 00:48:16

And I was like, I like these songs.

711

: 00:48:17

Yeah, I can see it now.

712

: 00:48:18

So I became like a huge Duncan Cheek fan.

713

: 00:48:21

I've met him like six times.

714

: 00:48:22

I think he's tired.

715

: 00:48:23

He's tired of seeing me at this point, but I'm a super big Duncan Cheek fan.

716

: 00:48:28

So shout out to Duncan Cheek.

717

: 00:48:30

And I love how you brought up other songs outside of just barely breathing because he's a

great songwriter.

718

: 00:48:35

And I think that song got such play that people really went, man, like he's a one hit

wonder.

719

: 00:48:40

No, he's got a lot of really great songs in that catalog.

720

: 00:48:44

And you know, whereas Elliott Smith, don't think has like one standout.

721

: 00:48:48

like the whole catalog is great.

722

: 00:48:49

I feel like Duncan Sheik, he's got a lot of great songs in the catalog.

723

: 00:48:53

It's just, they always pushed that one because that's kind of what you did back in that

time, right?

724

: 00:48:57

You ended up pushing.

725

: 00:48:58

like that one song and charging 20 bucks for a record that had like 15 bad songs and one

good one, except Duncan Sheik was putting out a record that had great songs throughout the

726

: 00:49:07

whole thing.

727

: 00:49:08

So I'm always happy when someone brings up something else a Duncan Sheik outside of that.

728

: 00:49:12

So.

729

: 00:49:13

Yeah, he's done a ton of stuff like he wrote the music for Spring Awakening.

730

: 00:49:16

So if you don't know Duncan Cheek from Barely Breathing, you know him from Spring

Awakening.

731

: 00:49:20

But he's written songs for The American Psycho.

732

: 00:49:24

I know he's working on a bunch of different musicals and killing it.

733

: 00:49:27

One of my favorite Duncan Cheek records is a record called Whisper House.

734

: 00:49:31

And it features, I think they were trying to make it into a musical and it just never

panned out, but it features a...

735

: 00:49:39

female singer named Holly Brooke who now goes by Skylar Grey who like she wrote songs or

hooks for like there's that Eminem song the I can see the the things like this watch me

736

: 00:49:53

burn I don't know I love the way it hurts that

737

: 00:49:55

way you lie.

738

: 00:49:56

Yeah.

739

: 00:49:57

she she wrote that hook for like rihanna and took it and like she's worked with a bunch of

times but like she had to reinvent herself and go that way but that that record is super

740

: 00:50:08

great too.

741

: 00:50:08

I went on a huge tangent on Duncan Cheek so you can see how much I love Duncan Cheek but

yeah kill the record whisper house go check it out

742

: 00:50:16

love that.

743

: 00:50:17

And Duncan Sheik, you should come on the podcast.

744

: 00:50:19

We'll talk all about wrestling.

745

: 00:50:20

I don't even know if you know wrestling, but we'll talk about it.

746

: 00:50:22

We'll talk about all the songs on the discography and spend a little bit on Barely

Breathing and be like, let's expand on that catalog.

747

: 00:50:29

Let's let the people know what else there is.

748

: 00:50:31

And Darren, it has been awesome having you on the show today.

749

: 00:50:33

I know we've been trying to get this going for a while.

750

: 00:50:36

I'm glad that we finally locked down some time.

751

: 00:50:38

And man, it's so cool to see everything you're doing.

752

: 00:50:41

We're going to collab.

753

: 00:50:42

We're going to figure it out.

754

: 00:50:43

And dude, thank you so much for coming on.

755

: 00:50:45

Thank you for having me.

756

: 00:50:46

This is great.

757

: 00:50:47

I'm a huge fan of the show, so thank you.