The Yagas on The Making of Midnight Minuet, Ozzy, The Rock Academy, Vera Farminga Tracking Pendulum

Speaker: 00:00:11

If you guys haven't heard the Yagas yet, stop what you're doing.

2

: 00:00:14

Don't even listen to this episode.

3

: 00:00:15

Go listen to the record.

4

: 00:00:17

It's amazing.

5

: 00:00:18

We've got some amazing music we're to talk about all today.

6

: 00:00:21

Today I've got Jason and Ren from the Yagas.

7

: 00:00:23

Thank you guys for joining us today.

8

: 00:00:25

Thanks for having us.

9

: 00:00:26

us.

10

: 00:00:27

Absolutely.

11

: 00:00:28

And off air, I was gushing a little bit about the new record because I had heard the

crying room and I was like, this is great.

12

: 00:00:34

And then as soon as the crying room came out, everyone's like, there's an orchestral metal

record.

13

: 00:00:38

Then the next press release came out and they were like, there's an alt rock record.

14

: 00:00:41

Then the next press release came out and they were just like, it's horror.

15

: 00:00:44

I'm just like, it's just great evocative music.

16

: 00:00:46

Let's just talk about the record itself.

17

: 00:00:49

It's just amazing.

18

: 00:00:50

So first off, kudos to coming up with.

19

: 00:00:53

What I can only say is one of the most visceral records of 2025 so far.

20

: 00:00:56

So keep crushing it guys.

21

: 00:00:57

So let's talk a little bit about the formation of the Yagas too, because I believe you

guys met at a music school from what I see up in your area.

22

: 00:01:08

Your music school.

23

: 00:01:08

Tell us about that.

24

: 00:01:09

Cause I run a music school too.

25

: 00:01:10

That's awesome.

26

: 00:01:11

my wife and I run a music school called Rock Academy.

27

: 00:01:14

we've been, we opened as Rock Academy seven years ago or so.

28

: 00:01:18

It's a school for children mostly, ages eight to 18.

29

: 00:01:21

But then we also have an adult program from 18 to whenever.

30

: 00:01:25

So I taught all of their kids at one point or another.

31

: 00:01:29

And you know, three hour rehearsals, they would come in, drop the kids off and then just

be sitting in the parking lot or in the lobby for three hours and chatting basically.

32

: 00:01:38

Conversations which I was not privy to because I was in Wrangling the Cats, I mean

teaching the children.

33

: 00:01:43

But, you know, eventually, I think it was the pandemic or just after the pandemic maybe

when the...

34

: 00:01:49

somebody signed Ren up for the adult program and then Vera followed and then Mark followed

and eventually Mike joined.

35

: 00:01:55

And whenever we do the adult program and somebody picks like a metal song or something

heavy with a lot of double kick, some of the drummers in the adult program can't quite

36

: 00:02:03

keep up with that.

37

: 00:02:04

So I step in and I'll play those tunes.

38

: 00:02:06

And that's how we all got to play together on songs.

39

: 00:02:09

And there was a definite chemistry there, definite, you know, just love.

40

: 00:02:13

And it started to work immediately, honestly.

41

: 00:02:17

From my perspective, I'm sorry if it's very loud.

42

: 00:02:21

Is it very loud?

43

: 00:02:22

Okay.

44

: 00:02:24

So Vera and I, my wife and two kids, we were moving back from Canada.

45

: 00:02:28

We were kind of, had been away for six years on a TV show.

46

: 00:02:33

And we were looking for a community to just, you know, be part of and a friend of ours

invited us to the Rock Academy.

47

: 00:02:40

And like, I just immediately saw in my kid's eyes, I just saw it.

48

: 00:02:45

them just light up when they saw kids their age playing the music.

49

: 00:02:49

think it was the doors was their first show, you know, and my son immediately turned to me

is like, I want to do this.

50

: 00:02:56

You know, little did I know that like two years later, I'd be like, I want to do this too.

51

: 00:03:00

Because the funny thing is, is that you have, I think, I don't know, maybe to attract a

kind of a family, but you have

52

: 00:03:10

an incredible pool of musicians who are adults sitting in the parking lot of the Rock

Academy, just waiting there for three hours while their kids are inside having a blast and

53

: 00:03:20

like, know, chasing each other around with Pringle cans and like, you know, pens at each

other and jamming together, forming friendships and having this just like amazing

54

: 00:03:31

environment and clubhouse.

55

: 00:03:33

And we're out in the park and not wondering like, why do they get to have all the fun?

56

: 00:03:36

Why didn't I have this as a kid?

57

: 00:03:39

Somebody as a joke signed me up for the adult program.

58

: 00:03:43

Still to this day, I don't know who it was.

59

: 00:03:45

Vera thinks it was Scott Ian.

60

: 00:03:47

I don't know if that's true because he's a friend of all of ours.

61

: 00:03:50

I think it was another kid, but in any event, I just said, all right, I'll do it.

62

: 00:03:54

And Vera said, you're doing it, I'm doing it.

63

: 00:03:57

And then soon enough, Jason became my teacher.

64

: 00:04:00

So one could argue that Jason

65

: 00:04:03

is all of our teachers, In the Rock Academy.

66

: 00:04:08

And, you know, he cracked us all wide open and I was, you know, a certain kind of a

musician.

67

: 00:04:12

He gave me some really complicated things that I wasn't used to playing.

68

: 00:04:15

it just like, you know, it's kind of funny.

69

: 00:04:18

I think I was 49 at the time, but to be like midlife and like somebody challenging you

like that.

70

: 00:04:23

And I don't know.

71

: 00:04:24

it just really started to gel.

72

: 00:04:26

And I think that like through

73

: 00:04:28

you know, natural selection, we kind of gravitated towards one another, just from the song

assignments that Jason's given us all and playing with each other on stage.

74

: 00:04:36

So I just want to keep highlighting like just how important Rock Academy is in the history

of this band and the formation.

75

: 00:04:43

So, yeah.

76

: 00:04:44

love also that you said that you're still not sure who signed you up it could have been

Scott Ian But there is a universe here where could have been Vera and she's still just

77

: 00:04:51

like I know man Could have been Scott, but now I'm here.

78

: 00:04:55

Maybe she's wanted to do this for a

79

: 00:04:57

Yeah, maybe.

80

: 00:04:58

Because I tell you, it cracked her wide open.

81

: 00:05:01

know, like the discovery for her, you know, like I said, like midlife, like who knew?

82

: 00:05:07

She and I had been together for 19 years, you know.

83

: 00:05:11

No idea.

84

: 00:05:11

She had, I knew she had loud voice.

85

: 00:05:13

I didn't know, I didn't know she had.

86

: 00:05:15

the control than the passion and just like the love of heavy music, you know?

87

: 00:05:20

it's, yeah.

88

: 00:05:24

Yeah.

89

: 00:05:24

you know, as a music teacher, I didn't know you were a music teacher, but I'm sure you

have the same feeling.

90

: 00:05:29

That's one of my favorite parts about teaching is that moment where you get somebody who

is obviously out of their heads, nervous, and then they open their mouth or they go to hit

91

: 00:05:40

the note and it happens.

92

: 00:05:42

And then you see that the light, you know, enter their eyes.

93

: 00:05:45

It's just one of the greatest feelings.

94

: 00:05:47

It's one of the reasons why you get into music.

95

: 00:05:49

know, it's one of these things where you see whether it's like the first lesson or whether

it's down the road and like a recital or something like that.

96

: 00:05:55

You know, we just finished up our five recitals here this last weekend and it's crazy

because there were a couple of kids that you saw a little bit of nervousness before they

97

: 00:06:03

jumped in.

98

: 00:06:04

And then all of a sudden you see them get on stage and it just changes for a lot of them,

you know, and they don't realize the adulation.

99

: 00:06:12

They don't realize like how good

100

: 00:06:14

They are, they kind of hear all their own mistakes.

101

: 00:06:16

They hear their own fear.

102

: 00:06:18

They hear their own consciousness.

103

: 00:06:19

And then they just rip it and everyone's just like, my God, you're so good.

104

: 00:06:23

Like what happened?

105

: 00:06:24

And it's just, makes you so proud to like, and I've said this to all my students.

106

: 00:06:28

go, listen, I'm grateful to have had the opportunities that I've had in music.

107

: 00:06:32

And I know you guys as well.

108

: 00:06:34

but to be able to see you guys just do all of this amazing stuff, like there's not a

better feeling in the world.

109

: 00:06:39

Yeah, it's amazing.

110

: 00:06:40

It's amazing.

111

: 00:06:41

You watch the wings just sort of, you know, rise out of their back.

112

: 00:06:45

Absolutely.

113

: 00:06:46

yeah.

114

: 00:06:47

And you know, just to go back to what you were saying earlier about the record and like,

you know, how to label it,

115

: 00:06:54

I think that what you have is this like, our record is like a cauldron of everybody's

influences and everybody's history, just kind of mixed up.

116

: 00:07:03

And I think it's okay when a record doesn't quite fit into a box, but on its own, I think

from start to finish, if you, I don't know who listens to full albums anymore, but

117

: 00:07:16

If you do, think it makes really good sense altogether.

118

: 00:07:19

And I think you have to just kind of, you know, remove those barriers, you know, of trying

to figure out like how it works or why it works and just enjoy it, you know?

119

: 00:07:28

But yeah, and think that Jason did a really great job of sequencing the record, I think,

to kind of solidify that.

120

: 00:07:34

I didn't really have any idea how to do that.

121

: 00:07:37

And he somehow just kind of feels like this.

122

: 00:07:40

book-ended journey of grief and love for me.

123

: 00:07:44

That's what I get listening back to it.

124

: 00:07:46

Yeah, it's, I feel like we went into it intending for it to be a visceral experience,

maybe not necessarily understanding how that would work or how that would come out, but

125

: 00:07:56

it's, know, whenever you enter a project, as long as you do it with an open mind and a

love for the people around you, you tend to find your way.

126

: 00:08:04

You tend to find the path.

127

: 00:08:05

to wherever you're trying to get to collectively.

128

: 00:08:07

A lot of the times it was just a matter of being in a room and throwing out ideas and

going, we like the idea but it's not gonna work for this part so we're gonna cut it, but

129

: 00:08:16

let's try something new and then you try that new thing and then everybody just looks at

each other and smiles and goes, yes, that's where we're trying to get to.

130

: 00:08:25

ah

131

: 00:08:25

And that, yeah.

132

: 00:08:27

that's something I wanted to ask you guys too, because the record has such an interesting

vibe and kind of knowing about, cool, you guys are all in this school together.

133

: 00:08:35

You guys are parents of people who are in this school.

134

: 00:08:38

lot of the times when you get grownups together, this isn't the style of music that

everyone jams on, but like you end up hearing all of this evocative music.

135

: 00:08:45

Was there upfront kind of a direction of, okay, cool, let's try out some songs that we

like and see what fits or was it kind of like, hey, while...

136

: 00:08:53

we have all of us together, what kind of direction do we want to go in?

137

: 00:08:56

Because I think a lot of people, you know, they called it like a heavy metal album or a

castor album because they're like, Vera, The Conjuring, great, Dark Imagery, let's go.

138

: 00:09:05

It's got synths and it's got orchestra and it's got this.

139

: 00:09:08

But like, I think that when you sit down with each other, how does that come to the

surface where you end up having this record that's a little bit darker as opposed to like

140

: 00:09:18

a bunch of people kind of saying, you know what?

141

: 00:09:20

cool, let's write something a little bit more upbeat or let's write something a little bit

more, for lack of a better term, what grownups of music school parents may traditionally

142

: 00:09:29

jam on or write.

143

: 00:09:31

We're all pretty dark, it turns out.

144

: 00:09:34

senses of humor are all pretty dark and that's just sort of where we live and part of,

think, one of the reasons that we connected so well was because of our sense of humor

145

: 00:09:44

being from the place that it's from and I think you hear that.

146

: 00:09:49

Yeah, you know, absolutely.

147

: 00:09:51

And what's funny is like you might listen to some of the stuff and be like, wow, these are

some morose lyrics or just even the heaviness and the gravity of the music.

148

: 00:10:01

Right.

149

: 00:10:01

There's absolutely none of that.

150

: 00:10:03

We're all actually very joyous and making jokes and laughing all of the time.

151

: 00:10:07

Like one interviewer had asked about asked for your like, how hard was it for you to

152

: 00:10:12

to sing and to execute the crying room performance on record.

153

: 00:10:16

We did that over a coffee at six in the morning on vacation on a bright August day.

154

: 00:10:22

Everyone else is asleep in the house and I always travel with my laptop and my mic and

headphones.

155

: 00:10:29

And she was like, I got an idea.

156

: 00:10:31

And it was literally one pass.

157

: 00:10:33

And then we're cooking scrambled eggs an hour later.

158

: 00:10:37

Yeah, but also there's no premeditation, I don't think, in any...

159

: 00:10:40

We never have actually gotten together and said, let's try to write one of these.

160

: 00:10:44

It's just like someone has an idea and it just kind of just gets built on, right?

161

: 00:10:49

you were mentioning the crying room earlier and where that sort of came from.

162

: 00:10:52

We were on tour, we take the kids on tour every summer and we were in Vermont playing a

church, an abandoned Catholic church and on one side there was a walled off area that said

163

: 00:11:01

choir and on the other side was a walled off area that said crying room.

164

: 00:11:05

Neither my wife nor me was raised Catholic.

165

: 00:11:08

So we had never seen anything like that.

166

: 00:11:11

So we were both like, crying room.

167

: 00:11:13

That's amazing.

168

: 00:11:14

So Acacia texted Vera and was like, you're not gonna believe what I'm looking at right

now.

169

: 00:11:18

Because we had never heard of a crying room, frankly.

170

: 00:11:20

So we got back on the bus, Acacia wrote some lyrics down and sent them in.

171

: 00:11:24

And then.

172

: 00:11:25

know, of course, what Ren just said, Vera heard that melody at like six in the morning and

got up and did that, you know, turned it from something that we were just like, you know,

173

: 00:11:35

sort of boggled by the idea of a crying room.

174

: 00:11:38

We were boggled by it.

175

: 00:11:39

But Vera turned it and turned it into the emotional catharsis that the song actually

became.

176

: 00:11:44

the thing that I love about the record too is, and I always love it when bands do this.

177

: 00:11:48

It's like the lyrics, I cannot hide from your advantage or from your advances.

178

: 00:11:53

The hedonistic gross malfunction, the listless labyrinth plight.

179

: 00:11:56

We're totally bringing out the dictionary on this, ladies and gentlemen.

180

: 00:11:59

I love this.

181

: 00:12:00

you have such

182

: 00:12:02

an evocative record, it comes down to the lyrics too.

183

: 00:12:05

It comes down to this concept of how are we going to go ahead and get this emotion?

184

: 00:12:09

Let's go ahead and use as many of these different kinds of topics as possible.

185

: 00:12:12

Who's responsible for the lyrics in the band?

186

: 00:12:15

Is that Vera also, or is that kind of you guys all together?

187

: 00:12:18

Because it sounds like it's a really collaborative process of whoever's coming up with

this part really helps drive that narrative forward.

188

: 00:12:24

It's song by song, but go ahead, Jake, go.

189

: 00:12:28

I was gonna say that lyric that you just read, that was all Vera.

190

: 00:12:31

But I've written some of the lyrics and my wife Acacia has written some of the lyrics to

the album.

191

: 00:12:38

Acacia has probably collaborated on over half the record with Vera.

192

: 00:12:44

They have a good partnerships, like lyric writing partnership.

193

: 00:12:49

Some songs were inspired by Acacia's writing even.

194

: 00:12:53

It wasn't like trying to just put words to music always.

195

: 00:12:56

You know, we just happen to have like a piece of music that worked and Acacia had sent

over these lyrics about like being in this crying room and it just worked, it just worked.

196

: 00:13:06

But you know, it's funny because the song Antedonia, I don't even know where we recorded

that, but when I first met Vera 20 something years ago, she used to carry this like

197

: 00:13:18

dictionary, like day-to-day book with her called a flipamatic where every day you get a

new word, you know, and

198

: 00:13:26

I always thought like, it's a nerdy, you know?

199

: 00:13:29

Like, it was kind of funny.

200

: 00:13:30

Like she just like carried it around in her purse, you know?

201

: 00:13:32

She has always had a love of words, as I know Jason has.

202

: 00:13:36

I wrote not one word of that record.

203

: 00:13:39

Not a single one.

204

: 00:13:42

Maybe I named a song or two, but that's it.

205

: 00:13:44

yeah, you definitely did.

206

: 00:13:45

remember getting tracks with the title already listed and no lyrics, no words, no

anything.

207

: 00:13:52

Well, sometimes Vera would be like, what's it, I'd write a piece of music and she'd be

like, what's it about?

208

: 00:13:56

And I'd be like, I guess it's about me dying.

209

: 00:14:01

And so, right.

210

: 00:14:06

well, and then the song becomes, yeah, yeah.

211

: 00:14:10

So I think I actually said it's the life of a widow, right?

212

: 00:14:14

And that's where that came from.

213

: 00:14:16

down also, I believe.

214

: 00:14:17

Right.

215

: 00:14:18

don't remember.

216

: 00:14:19

Again, this was a weird one.

217

: 00:14:20

was like, you everyone has like their little magic hour, you know, if you're Terrence

Malick, it's shooting between four and six PM, you know, three months out of the year.

218

: 00:14:30

ah yeah, for Vera, it's 5.30 to like seven AM where, I don't know, the little, I know you

don't.

219

: 00:14:41

That's when you're like going to bed.

220

: 00:14:42

That's exactly what I'm heading to bed.

221

: 00:14:44

Yeah, but that's when the inspiration seemed to kick in with her.

222

: 00:14:48

So, She's Walking Down was one of those.

223

: 00:14:50

Again, it was never an intention to like, we're gonna write a song about child abduction,

like our biggest fear, our daughter being abducted.

224

: 00:14:57

This was like, had written some like, the coffee wasn't even made yet.

225

: 00:15:01

I had turned it on and I had my keyboard on the dining table and I just started playing

something.

226

: 00:15:08

She was like, what is that?

227

: 00:15:09

And I said, I have no idea.

228

: 00:15:11

And then she went to,

229

: 00:15:12

changed the laundry and by the time she came up she had the lyrics done.

230

: 00:15:16

And we literally just like, it was just like boom.

231

: 00:15:19

But then, don't get me wrong, the song needed a lot of work after that.

232

: 00:15:24

If you remember Jason and Mark, you know, sitting there like, it's very difficult to get

some of that, that syncopation down between the guitar and the drums.

233

: 00:15:33

But yeah.

234

: 00:15:34

But that's what it is too, you know, when you write music, sometimes you have these ideas

that come to you super quick.

235

: 00:15:40

And you hear this all the time from you guys, from other musicians, from myself.

236

: 00:15:43

Hey, how did that song come out?

237

: 00:15:45

I don't know.

238

: 00:15:45

I was eating a sandwich and then it was done in 10 minutes.

239

: 00:15:47

You hear other songs that it's like, hey, we haven't even finished it.

240

: 00:15:50

You know, and it's been months now and you're just literally coming up with these

different ideas.

241

: 00:15:54

But everything comes from somewhere and you don't know what's going to spark that.

242

: 00:15:57

And even like you said, you're like, I'm not thinking about our kid getting abducted, but

at the same time,

243

: 00:16:02

You know, I'm sure that every parent has something in them that fear and that conversation

of like, know, no one wants to think about that.

244

: 00:16:09

But when it comes to writing a record and you're just like, you know what, what does it

sound like and feel like to explore that that may be horrible?

245

: 00:16:15

Well, you know what, let's put that into music.

246

: 00:16:18

Let's put that into lyrics and let's run with it.

247

: 00:16:20

You know, like that's not bad at all.

248

: 00:16:23

rarely hear?

249

: 00:16:23

I went to the studio at 10 a.m.

250

: 00:16:27

I sat down to write this kind of song and I wrote a song.

251

: 00:16:29

You never hear that.

252

: 00:16:31

You know?

253

: 00:16:32

Go ahead.

254

: 00:16:33

case, I've only ever heard of that in one case, and that was Bowie.

255

: 00:16:38

Yeah, because I know Bowie's bass player, and she said that was every day, you know, tea,

you go to the studio at a certain time, they would be done by a reasonable hour, and

256

: 00:16:47

that's just how they worked.

257

: 00:16:50

But that's the only time I've ever heard of that.

258

: 00:16:52

They were probably just like, you know what, like you go to the studio for 30 days, we'll

put out 10 songs and we have 20 in the chamber.

259

: 00:16:57

But I could see that kind of being a thing too.

260

: 00:17:00

But.

261

: 00:17:01

not

262

: 00:17:01

but I think that everyone works, and I know this, and I'm sure you do from teaching as

well, every single person works in their own way, and there's no right or wrong way to do

263

: 00:17:12

it.

264

: 00:17:12

And that's the difference, I was talking to one of my students before about the difference

between your work and your job, right?

265

: 00:17:18

Your job is where you go somewhere, you clock the hours, and then you leave, whereas your

work, you don't,

266

: 00:17:24

ever count the hours.

267

: 00:17:25

Your work is done when the work is done.

268

: 00:17:27

The research scientist's work is done when the cure is found.

269

: 00:17:30

The artist's work is done when the masterpiece is finished.

270

: 00:17:33

Counting the hours or counting the minutes or anything like that doesn't really matter if

you're doing what you love.

271

: 00:17:40

I agree with that, yeah.

272

: 00:17:41

And I've even talked to some of my students, because I teach songwriting and composition

too with some of them.

273

: 00:17:45

go, you know, you also have to, because sometimes you'll have students who come in and

like a week will go by, like, hey, did you write this?

274

: 00:17:51

No.

275

: 00:17:52

And I tell them, listen, there's work music and there's art music.

276

: 00:17:56

Your art music, you can always take this long amount of time to do whatever you need to.

277

: 00:18:00

Right.

278

: 00:18:01

The work music, sometimes if you're getting hired to do a session, or in my case, if we're

going over a certain scale, a certain mode or a certain chord saying, hey,

279

: 00:18:09

Leverage this, just write a piece with it, understand it, do it.

280

: 00:18:12

Because if you get it out there, you may not like everything you write, but you've gotten

it out there and now you can choose what else to do with it.

281

: 00:18:19

So I even sometimes say when it comes to conflict, there's those two different sides of

being able to say, here's something you're being asked to do that you just got to kind of

282

: 00:18:26

drill it out and go.

283

: 00:18:28

And then here is like the music that's really going to evoke everything that you have,

those ones that you put all of your lifeline into.

284

: 00:18:34

And both of them kind of work in tandem sometimes.

285

: 00:18:37

Sure, I've got friends that they insist on writing a song a day.

286

: 00:18:43

Doesn't matter if it's good or bad, song a day.

287

: 00:18:46

And when they've got enough of them, let's say a month has gone by, they'll go back over

the songs that they did every one a day and maybe they take a piece of one of them and a

288

: 00:18:54

piece from another and they put those together and then they get something really great

out of it.

289

: 00:18:58

So out of 20 songs, they get one or two really good ones.

290

: 00:19:02

So like I said, everyone works differently and it then...

291

: 00:19:06

Once you find your process, that's one of the happiest days there is, I feel.

292

: 00:19:12

I love that.

293

: 00:19:13

I'll ask you, okay.

294

: 00:19:15

gets really difficult because then all of sudden you have all these other roadblocks and

hurdles in your way and you can't do it the way you need to do it because life, life.

295

: 00:19:25

Yeah.

296

: 00:19:26

Absolutely.

297

: 00:19:27

For each of you, what is your favorite song off of the record and why?

298

: 00:19:31

Red?

299

: 00:19:32

Mine is pendulum and I don't I guess well originally I didn't understand it and Vera I

recorded it in our living room the vocals This was a unique song.

300

: 00:19:46

She didn't want to retract it.

301

: 00:19:48

So we it was a demo That we did in the living room She's sitting on like my squeaky chair

that I found in a dumpster outside of a guitar store Like it was like it was bad audio.

302

: 00:19:58

The kids were screaming for breakfast in the background

303

: 00:20:01

And she said, let me try this, you know, screaming thing.

304

: 00:20:04

And I just didn't quite understand it.

305

: 00:20:08

And then something, I don't know, it just kind of got, got into my pores.

306

: 00:20:12

And then I worked really hard on doing my keyboards.

307

: 00:20:15

We went into the studio, did the guitars, bass, and the drums.

308

: 00:20:18

And then I had time to sit with it and do my keyboards.

309

: 00:20:20

And I know, I guess for me, I'm most proud of it.

310

: 00:20:23

Of like, I'm not sure it's the best produced song on the album.

311

: 00:20:27

but I know the layers that are in there and I don't know, it's the one that grabs me the

most emotionally.

312

: 00:20:33

Okay, for me, I think it's midnight minuet.

313

: 00:20:36

Midnight minuet for me.

314

: 00:20:37

Okay, so going back a little, my grandmother was in the hospital dying basically, and we

came to visit her and we said, know, how are you doing?

315

: 00:20:46

How are the nurses treating you?

316

: 00:20:47

She said, the nurses there are fine, but I really like the one that lives under my bedside

table.

317

: 00:20:53

Right, so cold water down the spine immediately.

318

: 00:20:55

We were like, grandma, is she there now?

319

: 00:20:57

Yes, she is.

320

: 00:20:58

And I said, I said, but we don't see her.

321

: 00:21:00

She said, yes, she's between the people that you can see, the in between spaces.

322

: 00:21:05

And that idea has fascinated me ever since.

323

: 00:21:08

know, science tells us that between zero seconds and one, there are an infinite number of

moments.

324

: 00:21:14

And since Einstein proved that time and space are.

325

: 00:21:18

woven together into a fabric, it follows that there are also spaces between spaces.

326

: 00:21:23

And for me, Midnight Minuet in particular accesses that.

327

: 00:21:27

It feels like it's one of those in-between spaces, between life and death perhaps, or even

dimensions, I don't even know, but the feel of it is very much, and it's actually about

328

: 00:21:38

dancing with the dead under the moon.

329

: 00:21:40

That's what the actual,

330

: 00:21:42

you know, idea behind the song was...

331

: 00:21:45

Yeah.

332

: 00:21:45

Wow, that's crazy.

333

: 00:21:48

It's funny, I tell my students I wrote a song one time for a film called The Moments in

Between Breathing.

334

: 00:21:53

we often think of like time as this, know, as if something has happened and then something

is going to happen, right?

335

: 00:22:00

But there are all these moments before you say that thing that you want to say before you,

know, just those things before the actions happen.

336

: 00:22:06

And it's very much like what happens in those spaces, what happens in what you can't see,

what you don't know.

337

: 00:22:13

And yeah.

338

: 00:22:15

You don't normally see.

339

: 00:22:16

artist to pick that out.

340

: 00:22:18

Because also one of my favorite things, if you go to the Rembrandt Museum in Amsterdam, at

the very end of the tour are series of these obviously hastily drawn self-portraits that

341

: 00:22:28

Rembrandt did, and they're all those in-between moments between composure.

342

: 00:22:32

Like it's either him beginning to smile or him just finishing smiling.

343

: 00:22:36

or you know like he's doing this kind of thing and and they're drawings they're hand drawn

so obviously he took time to do it but he was focused on those in between moments and that

344

: 00:22:45

you know that just i already loved Rembrandt but you know i will forever love him just

just for that you know

345

: 00:22:52

I love that.

346

: 00:22:53

And from a, from a question that was incredibly evocative to something that's and the

spirit of our ropes and riffs podcast for each of you, if you had to put together a

347

: 00:23:03

wrestling match of musicians only for each of you, who would that be and what would it be?

348

: 00:23:09

Like, well known?

349

: 00:23:10

Is anyone in history?

350

: 00:23:12

Or like, people we know?

351

: 00:23:13

It could be anyone in history and it could be any kind of match type you want.

352

: 00:23:16

It could be Bach and Beethoven in a hardcore match, but I don't know who'd want to see

that.

353

: 00:23:20

I'd want to see that.

354

: 00:23:21

I just answered it.

355

: 00:23:22

How about you guys?

356

: 00:23:25

I would want to see Bonham and Ginger Baker in a cage match.

357

: 00:23:30

Okay?

358

: 00:23:30

A rage in the cage style match.

359

: 00:23:32

Just because they were both such bruisers.

360

: 00:23:35

And Baker was convinced that he was nothing like Bonham.

361

: 00:23:39

That he was more of a cultured musician playing melodies and things like that.

362

: 00:23:42

And Bonham was like, who fucking cares?

363

: 00:23:45

You know?

364

: 00:23:45

Just hit the fucking things loudly, right?

365

: 00:23:48

So, you know, it would be like Brains versus Braun, I think, and I think it would be an

amazing match.

366

: 00:23:54

I love that.

367

: 00:23:56

I'm gonna go with Prince and Michael Jackson.

368

: 00:23:59

my God.

369

: 00:24:01

I don't know who I would want to win.

370

: 00:24:03

I love them both eternally.

371

: 00:24:05

They're amazing.

372

: 00:24:09

I'm trying to think of the hardest one for me to watch.

373

: 00:24:13

And then the last question I got for you guys here.

374

: 00:24:16

For each of you, if you had to make a Spotify playlist with three songs that represent who

you are, what would those songs be?

375

: 00:24:23

who we are as a band or who we are as people?

376

: 00:24:27

Wow.

377

: 00:24:29

that's always the hardest question.

378

: 00:24:30

We talk about everything else on the show.

379

: 00:24:32

As soon as I get to that question, people are like, damn man.

380

: 00:24:35

Well, because three songs is tough.

381

: 00:24:37

mean, for me, number one would be Firebird Suite by Stravinsky.

382

: 00:24:42

But the other two...

383

: 00:24:43

uh

384

: 00:24:46

next to impossible for me I'm sure it would be a Sam Cooke song and Maybe maybe an anthrax

song You know madhouse or something

385

: 00:24:56

I'm not sure how interesting my answer is going to be other than I would say...

386

: 00:25:02

Twa Jimnoped by Eric Satie.

387

: 00:25:05

To me, I mean, that is, I think, historically the first conventional pop song.

388

: 00:25:10

I think which kind of changed the game for everybody, you know, just in terms of its

arrangement.

389

: 00:25:14

And also it's just, I don't know, something about its arrangement.

390

: 00:25:20

You know, when I sit at the piano and play it, it's just like, you know, one of my faves.

391

: 00:25:25

And then I'm going to jump to Mask by Bauhaus.

392

: 00:25:27

And then, man, I would say an instrumental Gary Newman song called A Nearly Married Human.

393

: 00:25:35

Yes.

394

: 00:25:37

great song.

395

: 00:25:38

That's all I got.

396

: 00:25:39

That's all you need.

397

: 00:25:40

He only needed three.

398

: 00:25:41

And every time I ask that question...

399

: 00:25:43

Ozzy's in there too though.

400

: 00:25:44

It's something from Diary of a Madman, know, like when I sitting in seventh grade and like

listening to that and that's when I, yeah.

401

: 00:25:54

then Ozzy's just an archangel.

402

: 00:25:57

Always included.

403

: 00:25:58

think Mr.

404

: 00:26:00

Crowley listening to that was not to say it's on satanic because it wasn't, but it's more

of a, I became possessed by the music.

405

: 00:26:08

I remember listening to that song in like seventh grade and looking in the mirror and

being like, Whoa, it's just, it's so, it just hit me.

406

: 00:26:21

It's just like one of the first things that rattled my soul.

407

: 00:26:24

So can I have four?

408

: 00:26:26

You can have four.

409

: 00:26:27

Absolutely.

410

: 00:26:29

I love that.

411

: 00:26:30

I love that.

412

: 00:26:30

400 because I think I can get there

413

: 00:26:33

Yeah.

414

: 00:26:34

throw an Aussie on there too and I talked to my buddy Ben recently who's also a massive

Aussie fan and I go controversial statement my favorite Aussie song ever is bark at the

415

: 00:26:44

moon and my favorite guitarist of Ozzy ever was Jakey Lee I'm just like I love Randy

Rhoads.

416

: 00:26:49

He is phenomenal.

417

: 00:26:50

I love Gus G.

418

: 00:26:51

I love Zach Wild I love all the guys he's gotten they're all phenomenal

419

: 00:26:55

But I don't think in Ozzy's era you get a song.

420

: 00:26:58

Well, Mr.

421

: 00:26:58

Crowley is great too.

422

: 00:26:59

But I'm just like, remember here a bark for the bark at the moon for the first time right

after crazy train.

423

: 00:27:04

And I was like, what the hell is this?

424

: 00:27:05

That would have to be one of mine.

425

: 00:27:07

So, really?

426

: 00:27:09

That's awesome.

427

: 00:27:12

yeah, I would agree with that.

428

: 00:27:13

love, well, I love all the eras for the era themself.

429

: 00:27:17

I saw that tour, it was astonishing, it was amazing.

430

: 00:27:21

And I love, like I said, I love the Zach Wild era, I love pinch harmonics, you I'd never

heard anything like that before and it was everywhere on every song, coolest thing ever.

431

: 00:27:30

And of course, Randy is just.

432

: 00:27:32

otherworldly.

433

: 00:27:33

melting.

434

: 00:27:36

Just those descending scales in the middle of a song, you I'd never heard that before.

435

: 00:27:43

you

436

: 00:27:44

I love that.

437

: 00:27:44

Well guys, thank you so much for making time to come on the show.

438

: 00:27:47

everyone check out Midnight Minuet.

439

: 00:27:49

Everyone check out the Yagas.

440

: 00:27:50

If you haven't heard it yet, this is your call to hear it.

441

: 00:27:52

I told you guys at the beginning, if you haven't heard it yet, stop this, go listen to it,

and then come back.

442

: 00:27:58

But if you haven't listened to it yet, go listen to it now.

443

: 00:28:01

Thank you.

444

: 00:28:01

a show coming up August 1, Space Ballroom in New Haven, Connecticut.

445

: 00:28:08

that's awesome.

446

: 00:28:09

Thank you guys for coming on the show.

447

: 00:28:10

John, so much.