Episode 13

Monteasy on Writing Sammy Guevara's Theme, Working with John Kiernan, Wrestling Entrance Themes

Published on: 29th April, 2025

Monteasy discuss the intricacies of creating wrestling entrance themes, the importance of camaraderie in the music industry, and the strategies that have led to Monteasy's success. They explore the significance of building relationships, the power of word-of-mouth promotion, and the need for innovation in the evolving landscape of wrestling music. Monteasy shares his journey, insights on collaboration, and advice for aspiring musicians in the wrestling community. In this conversation, Monteasy discusses the importance of collaboration in the hip hop industry, emphasizing that everyone contributes uniquely to the culture.

He shares insights on the necessity of reinventing oneself, drawing inspiration from figures like Chris Jericho and Prince. Monteasy also highlights the significance of timing and strategy in music, particularly in relation to his work with wrestling themes.


He elaborates on the creative process behind notable themes for wrestlers like Sammy Guevara and Shane Taylor, showcasing the blend of artistry and strategic thinking in his music career. In this engaging conversation, Monteasy and John Kiernan explore the intricacies of music production, particularly in the context of wrestling theme songs.


They discuss the importance of collaboration, trust, and adaptability in the creative process, sharing personal anecdotes and insights into their experiences. The dialogue highlights the significance of understanding character and specificity in songwriting, as well as the challenges and joys of working in the music industry. Ultimately, the conversation emphasizes the power of creativity and the importance of staying true to one's artistic vision.


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About The Show:

Do you like wrestling? Do you like music and stories from the road? Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!


About the Host:

John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.


#music #wrestling #ropesnriffs #johnkiernan

Transcript
Speaker:

John wrestling entrance theme song composer and talking about wrestling entrance themes.

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We're going to talk to none other than my good buddy, Montese.

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You know him for lots of different things.

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You know him for his podcast, TZ's table, but you probably know him even more for Sammy

Guevara's theme.

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Take flight.

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just heard him on final battle 2024 with an awesome theme for that.

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And we're to talk all about that.

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And obviously we're going to talk about the dragon Lee theme we worked on together before

he went to WWE and even more.

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For those who are looking to get into wrestling entrance themes, we're gonna talk a little

bit about the industry there too.

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So definitely stay tuned.

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Got a big episode here coming up.

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Before we jump into the episode, just wanna thank everybody who's been listening, sharing

on socials, listening to the podcast, checking us out over on YouTube.

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So just be sure that you're sharing the episodes.

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Everyone who's been joining us, it's been an awesome experience so far.

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Thank you for all the love and the feedback on that.

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And if you're listening on any podcast directory, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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Google podcast.

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That's not a thing anymore.

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But anywhere else you're listening to us on the podcasting ecosystem, go ahead, subscribe,

drop us a comment.

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really helps out the show.

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Hit us with a subscribe over on YouTube and leave us a comment on who else you'd like to

see come on the show and leave us your feedback.

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We love being able to see what you're thinking of the show.

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I love doing the show.

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Love writing entrance themes and bringing on musicians and wrestlers for you.

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Also, go ahead and donate over to PayPal at ropes and riffs.

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$10 or more of a donation gets you a shout out on the next episode as well.

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So without any further ado, know what you're waiting for.

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You're waiting for the conversation with Montese.

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Whitney here is talk all about wrestling entrance music.

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So enjoy this episode with Montese.

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You know him from Teezy's table.

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You know him from all the themes you hear in all different promotions.

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I like to say I write a lot of themes, but I think y'all know who's on the show today and

y'all know the man behind many of your favorite themes.

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you are the man, the myth, the legend, Monteezy.

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Peace, my brother, peace, man.

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Thank you for having me on your show, man, on the Ropes and Rips podcast.

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you know, not only am I grateful, but, you know, with us, with how much we've worked

together and the camaraderie and being able to build outside of just what we do is an

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absolutely phenomenal thing.

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So I am blessed, I am appreciative, I'm thankful, brother.

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And, you know, we're brothers in arms in this, so it's...

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It's good to connect, man.

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It's really good to connect.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's cool to say that, you know, we've done stuff together, but it's cool to also say

that we're friends outside of everything that we do too.

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Like you said, I don't think you could have put it any better than that.

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It's, uh, it's been a crazy couple of years too.

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And you know, for me, I never thought I'd be doing entrance scene, but I never thought I

say this all the time, that the camaraderie that is there within the wrestling industry,

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especially, know, with you and I, it's just, I think we talk even more about non-wrestling

stuff that we do wrestling stuff.

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And that's always.

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That's just the coolest thing.

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And it's just, it's been cool to be able to have this connection with you for all these

years.

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And we could talk about, we're going to talk about so many things.

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We're talking about so many themes.

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That's one of the reasons why we're here, but just, I just want to give you the praise as

well before we jump into everything.

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Cause you're everywhere.

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You're doing everything.

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And with all the things you've done with all the things you continue to do, you're just

like the best, most humble dude.

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And I'm sure I'm not the only person to tell you that.

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You're one of the friendliest people, one of the first people to just, you know, be that

person that you want to walk into a room and meet.

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So for that, I thank you too.

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Thank you, brother.

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It's just how I was raised, You to tell you the truth, I've seen, I watch a lot of

documentaries on the music industry and I see how many people treat people so bad in this

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genre and just in the world, especially when you get in a position of status or power or

whatever you wanna call it.

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You know, I'm like, man, I'm not going to treat anybody that way.

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I'm going to treat the janitor how I treat the owner of the building.

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We're all equal at the end of the day.

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And as you can see from the way 2024 gone, once you get to a higher point and you start to

lose yourself or lose touch, they're going to bring you down.

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And I don't, you know, the reason why I've been able to stay as consistent as long as I

have is just because I try to just treat everybody the same and just work hand in hand.

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You know, I don't let none of this get to my head.

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I'm a very confident person, but I'm not egotistical person.

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You know, I realized that relationships matter.

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You you matter, everybody that matters that's in this community, outside of this

community, everybody matters.

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And you have to treat everybody the same.

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I'm gonna treat everybody the same with the same humble respect.

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I respect everybody.

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And that's just the way I was raised, man.

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You know, and I think that, you know, when you're an easy person to work with and you're

liked, you get around a lot further in life than trying to, you know, have a...

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you know, upstanding personality or act like this and that, and you lose touch with the

culture, you lose touch with yourself.

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And I just told myself that I would, I would never do that.

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You know, I told myself that I would never, I would never do that.

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So, you know, I just wanted to treat everybody the same.

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And you know, I want to give you your roses as well, man, because you've been a phenomenal

friend to me.

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If anybody don't notice, I'm gonna say this publicly, this man has helped me out on a

personal level.

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He's helped me out when I've needed him the most.

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You know what mean?

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When I was battling my health concerns, which I'm still recovering from.

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And this man was one of the people that, you know, that helped me when I needed him the

most.

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So he will always have my friendship and my loyalty, whatever he needs.

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You know, I'm always going to be there for him.

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So salute to you, John, and thank you for all you've done for me as well.

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Ah, man, to you too.

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It's just, uh, it's been a great ride, my friend.

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And we're going to keep, we're going to keep doing awesome things and stuff, as they say.

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And I think we're going to start talking a little bit about what I would consider the

mountain of Montese.

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And what is that?

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The mountain of Montese is all of these different things that you've done.

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Uh, we're going to speak a lot about the entrance themes and a lot about the music that

you've done and the people you've collaborated with.

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I think probably the biggest starting point is.

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kind of where we're at now.

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You know, have your podcast, have TZ's table, you're bringing on all these great guests,

you've worked with so many of these phenomenal wrestlers, you've worked with so many

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awesome musicians too.

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And it's not just in wrestling, like you've done stuff for XFL, you have stuff for NFL,

have NHL, and you have so many of these different pools that you've been able to work in

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and be able to have these connection points with.

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So what do you attribute

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to being so versatile and being able to work in so many of these different pockets with so

many different people.

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You know, this is a great question.

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You know, we spoke a couple days ago about, you know, some goals that you have and the

things that I tell everybody.

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strategy that I will give anybody when it comes to this.

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If I see anybody that's an athlete, a wrestler, basketball player, I say, huh, what kind

of song can I write about that person?

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And it just randomly sticks, you know, and sometimes I will tell you the honest truth.

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I, there's not a Russell that's not on television and mentally in my head, I don't have a

song about that.

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It's just, it's just the way I'm wired.

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You know, it's just, I've been doing it so long.

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I just try to say, huh,

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If I did a Carmelo Hayes rap, how would I do it?

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If I a, if I did a Xylee rap, how would I do it?

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If I did a LA Knight rap, which shout out to Darren Fisher, we did one.

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How can I do that?

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If I did a, if I did a Will Hobbs rap, how would I do it?

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How would I make it different than the other ones that I did?

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So a lot of times my brain is like a funnel system of

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of being able to put together how can I build my catalog on just creative ideas.

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And that's how a lot of people ask me how's my output like this.

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It's just because I just put shots up.

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put, I'm a big rest in peace Kobe Bryant fan or Michael Jordan fan and they just always

said, just put shots up.

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You never know what's gonna stick.

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A lot of people, a lot of times as artists we get stuck into, well, am I getting paid or?

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is the business, yes, and you need to get compensated for your work.

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But a lot of times as artists, we just have to put shots up.

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We just have to do it.

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We just have to put stuff out there.

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And you never know what the universe is gonna catch on to.

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You never know what song they're gonna catch on to.

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You don't know.

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And especially in this music industry with the way things are changing, you just gotta put

stuff out there.

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And sometimes you think that the placement that you're gonna do for this big name person

is

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and you put the marketing dollars behind it and the video and everything is gonna do

great.

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And then that might not do as good as one you just randomly did somewhere.

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And you just did it for a song for a guy in the independence that is on his way up and

that song takes off.

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You just don't know.

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So I just believe in putting shots up, man.

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believe like whoever you see, like it's just, you should have something brewing in your

head.

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And the way that I, the way that I come up,

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happened and happened was everybody knows who the rapper Lil Wayne is.

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So what Lil Wayne did for years, well he just did mix tape after mix tape and song after

song and he just put out a bunch of free material, he put out a bunch of music and he just

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funneled the system with word of mouth.

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So he just put songs out, mix tapes, free stuff.

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He did that for years, you know, and there wasn't a, there wasn't.

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a time for years where you did not hear a song and you did not hear a little Wayne rap.

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Like he was everywhere.

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So I said, okay, when I started this in 2014, I said, okay, there's two ways I can do

this.

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I can either just go, cause at the time AEW wasn't around or nothing.

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It's just WWE.

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I said, okay, if I'm going to do this, am I going to just try to go to the top WWE route

or am I going to work around them?

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and building the independence and starts from the ground up.

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So the reason, I think the reason why people can attest to Monteezy and the reason why my

longevity has been the way it is, is because I started at the very, very ground level with

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everybody else, with the wrestlers.

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I was outside of the indie promotions handing out CDs when CDs were still a relevant

thing.

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I was still, I literally was in these cars with these wrestlers driving.

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to these venues.

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I literally did the work.

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I started from the bottom.

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didn't just try to network.

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I literally was in the locker rooms.

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I was literally helping.

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I was literally saying, hey, here's free CDs.

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I'm, hey man, I mean, it could be a wrestler that might've started last week, but hey man,

I'ma write a theme about you.

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I printed up CDs, I handed CDs, I handed this stuff to them.

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And I did it just to do it.

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I didn't make much money off this for three, four years.

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I started 2014.

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I had to start making, I didn't get like a plus, a plus in my income to maybe about three,

four years later.

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But I knew what I was doing.

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I was getting my name out there.

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And that's what I tell guys, especially now.

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I'm like, bro, you know how many wrestlers pop up on TV every day?

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There's tons.

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Now the indies might not be the same because everybody's signing, but you can look at, I

tell anybody on the come up, go on the WWE roster, go to the AEW roster.

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and think of a song for each and every person you see and just record it and put it out

there.

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The algorithm will catch it.

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Things will happen.

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Things will catch.

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And you know, maybe all it takes is one retweet from somebody.

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All it takes is one Instagram follow from somebody to support it.

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And you just got to keep putting shots up.

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There's millions of wrestlers out here.

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If you want to get in that lane, there's millions of hockey players out here, millions of

basketball players out here.

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So just keep putting shots.

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I didn't mean to make that

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a long-winded answer, but I just wanted to give people some advice in detail on how I did

this so everybody can see that all I did was just record and just put it out there and

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just see what happened.

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There was no strategy or no crazy game plan to it until later with marketing, but just

keep putting shots up.

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That's my best advice.

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But you know what, you said you didn't have a strategy, but it's kind of like you at least

had a game plan of what you were going to do.

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And the way I've liked to call it, at least within 2024, 2025, shirt coming, ladies and

gentlemen, is, you know, just start swinging and keep swinging.

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You know, everything that you said was 100 % true.

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And I think about when I started doing wrestling themes, I was doing a podcast in 2019 and

we were just trying to figure out ways to grow the show.

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And all of us had like different skill sets.

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And I've said this in a couple of different interviews before.

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But one of the guys was just like, hey, you write music.

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What about writing entrance themes for wrestlers?

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And at that point it was 2019 AEW was just kind of in the murmurs.

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This was like right before time.

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And I was like, man, that's a cool idea.

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There's no way I'm going to be able to do that though.

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Cause when we think about 2019, 2018, we're thinking about WWE.

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We're thinking, know, lightly and tangentially maybe about some other promotions.

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And I remember I was talking to my buddy Ricky Gibson at that time, Four Minutes of Heat,

right now Midnight Heat.

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And I've been grateful to work on music with them for years and years and years.

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But I remember asking him, I go, you know what?

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How do you guys figure out like what music you're going to use?

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And I remember his answer was something akin to, we just choose a song and we hope we

don't get sued.

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And it was one of those things that was such an eye opener for me.

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I was like, well, what would end up happening if like I was writing music for you guys?

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And

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Like you said, there's compensation to it, sure.

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But there's also this part of you're becoming part of this industry.

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You're becoming part of the voice of these people.

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And I still remember to this day, the first four themes I did were for four minutes of

heat.

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Like I said, midnight heat now, Christina Marie, Johnny Moran and Masha Slamovich.

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Those were the first four themes I did.

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And back then with Masha Slamovich, it was right when she was on the come up and she was

starting to do something more of the Russian character.

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And she still kept that to now.

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But back then it was very much of like that Russian flavor, right?

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If you go back and listen to it, there's actually Russian composers and you hear it and

you'll hear that Russian dynamite if you look it up.

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Years later, she's going to TNA and we go, okay, cool.

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Let's go ahead and create another theme.

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And we're like, all right, we're looking for something close to like heavier testament,

that kind of thing.

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So all of a sudden years go down the line and Masha and I start working together again.

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That shows up on TNA.

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And it's one of these things where it's like, first off,

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Masha is one of like the coolest people in the world.

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And I'm really grateful to say that out of all the themes that I've done, most of the

wrestlers I've worked with have just been like the coolest people, the best to collaborate

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with, just real nice and just, you know, really about building this community.

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And it speaks true to what you say, you know, yours, I think was a little bit more

physical in person going to shows.

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Mine, I think was a little bit more on the digital side, but still saying, Hey, I want to

go ahead and grow our show.

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And I would love to do something for you.

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to help grow your brand too.

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And the ambassadorship that you get from other wrestlers also helped.

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Like you said, you may be working with a wrestler who has just started their career.

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And then all of a sudden years later, they're continuing to apply their trade, just like

you are.

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You're building these friendships, you're building these relationships, they're going to

shows.

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People are going, oh my God, this is a unique theme.

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What's happening?

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Who is this?

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Oh, it's this person.

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You have no idea how many people I've gotten to work on themes for both.

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large names and people who are on the come up and people who are doing it professionally,

just from someone saying, yeah, John's the guy.

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Go ahead and go with him.

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Uh, one person who I will always put over in any time they speak to them is out Lilith

Grimm.

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Lilith Grimm we've worked on a theme for, was probably one of my favorite themes I've done

because at the time she was doing more of like a world gimmick.

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had the skull on super cool stuff.

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Go check her out.

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Please.

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Um,

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And she wanted something that was a little bit more world music and a little bit more of

like that kind of chanty more kind of culty is what I like to call it a little bit like

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that really kind of dark stuff.

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And she was like, I want this instrument called the hurdy-gurdy.

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I go, all right, cool.

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I don't play that instrument.

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It's a crazy Saturn instrument.

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So I had to go online, look for a hurdy-gurdy player.

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And apparently the one I came across was from this huge band named Eluvady, who I've been

listening to since like high school.

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right, right.

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You know, it became one of these things where now that's a relationship.

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All right, cool.

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Now, uh, me, Helena and I are friends and it's been like, it you just are able to grow

just by starting to put yourself out there and say, Hey, I can do this.

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I want to work with you.

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And then you just keep growing that.

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And so long as like going back to what you said before, you're being respectful, you're

doing your best work and you're just continuing to grow this community, not just for you,

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but for others.

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That's a huge part of how you.

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grow and get more entrance themes to become a bigger part of a community.

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So when someone goes, I need a theme, people are talking about you in the room when you're

not even there.

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Absolutely, and that's, it's a, I tell people man, still to this day, I don't care how

many ads you run, how many billboards you try to get, ad placements you try to get,

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there's still no better promotion than word of mouth, If I tell you something as a friend

to check something out, you're more than likely gonna check it out more than just looking

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at an ad that just goes down your Instagram that you're just gonna scroll by anyway.

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So I think that it's a direct hand-to-hand thing with communication and being able to make

it.

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And a lot of people ask me, you know, what keeps you doing this after all this time?

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What keeps you pushing with you being, you know, one of the most known guys doing this?

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And honestly, it's because it's, I love it now more.

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than I did before simply because I know that I've stood the test of time and more now

because I'm able to help others, to help build, you know what I mean?

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To help give back.

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The one thing I know about this culture, especially in the wrestling culture, definitely,

once you get to a certain point, you have to give back.

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Once you, and that's just the adage of life.

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It's the law of great return.

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I'm gonna get a blessing, I'm gonna make sure I bless others and it's just good karma man.

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I just really believe in that.

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I believe that know, networking, working together and doing it because you love it and the

spirit of it will always keep you around.

290

:

really, I'm doing, I've been doing phenomenal just even in my numbers and just you know,

in the consistency that it's been.

291

:

Some places it's even grown because you know, the name has grown.

292

:

So when it comes to that promotion, it's just all about making great relationships and

being able to build.

293

:

And it's also like, you think about all the placements that you've had.

294

:

You think about all the places your music has been played.

295

:

You just had your music on the Tokyo Dome.

296

:

You just had it at Final Battle.

297

:

Sammy Guevara, who we're going to talk about, has had his music with you forever,

including the other version of the theme.

298

:

You know, you've been everywhere.

299

:

You've had your music in so many different places.

300

:

And, you know, for me, I always remember like, you know, talking to Kevin of It Lives It

Breathes, talking to you.

301

:

And whenever we see each other's music out there in these different places,

302

:

First text I get is either from you or Kevin or anyone who's done this.

303

:

And it's just like, dude, congrats.

304

:

And it's the same thing for me.

305

:

Like all of a sudden, of course your music is playing at the Tokyo Dome, because you guys

are doing awesome.

306

:

It's just this big kind of party back and forth of everyone just being like, look at what

we're doing.

307

:

Like, this is crazy.

308

:

I don't know, man.

309

:

Me in middle school and high school wouldn't have even thought of any of this happening.

310

:

And then all of a sudden, everyone's just talking and being like, dude.

311

:

Congrats to you.

312

:

You're like, congrats to you.

313

:

Look at where your stuff is.

314

:

That's cool.

315

:

and I think too, I think we keep each other motivated because it's, you have to help each

other and use each other in great vessels and great ways to keep the fire lit because

316

:

sometimes when you've already seen, it's funny because I know you get this as well.

317

:

You see so many artists that ask you, how do you do this?

318

:

And how can I do it?

319

:

It's like, man, it's a...

320

:

It's a unique thing.

321

:

It's all momentum based.

322

:

I tell people this, is all, it's a momentum based world.

323

:

If you have great momentum, if you have one, keep dropping, do another, build

relationships, keep building, keep building, keep, you know, keep putting in the work.

324

:

And I think that, but also too, I think once you get to a certain level, like, you know,

Mikey Ruckus, like yourself, like me.

325

:

You need stuff to keep your fire lit and that's where collaboration works with.

326

:

That's why I love the records that we did together.

327

:

That's why I love connecting people so other people can do, you know what mean, great

music together and build great networks because that's what it's all about.

328

:

It's about taking what you have and being able to build on it in this because people

think, man, you know, I'm just gonna, how'd you do that?

329

:

Okay, well, this is how did it.

330

:

Okay, so if I get this song and ends up on TV, am I gonna make a million dollars?

331

:

It don't work that way, But what it does do is that it builds your network and it builds

opportunity for other things, you know?

332

:

And people have to realize in other places, there's millions of movies and movie companies

from Independence, Tooby, whatever.

333

:

Really logistically in the wrestling industry, there's only two companies that's really

gonna pay you.

334

:

And we both know this.

335

:

We both know what we're talking about.

336

:

So you have to leverage this the right way.

337

:

And if you do in the dust do stuff in the indies, you just have to negotiate with these,

lot of the wrestlers who have working day jobs like everybody else.

338

:

And you gotta negotiate with the wrestler if you are gonna do a certain rate or something

like that.

339

:

and work hand in hand with them.

340

:

Or try to get to the bigger companies and then work out something with them, which is more

of a political thing and fighting for what you think you're worth.

341

:

It's a lot behind it, but it's just knowing the business, having fun with it, and keeping

each other inspired.

342

:

You keep me inspired.

343

:

Mikey keeps me inspired.

344

:

Josiah Williams keeps me inspired.

345

:

You know, now with me building a network of artists that I'm working with that's, you

know, that's on that's with my network of tree that I've helped bring up.

346

:

Now they keep me motivated.

347

:

They keep that fire lit as well, too.

348

:

So.

349

:

And the other part too, that I think goes under the radar, but you're kind of touching on

it here too.

350

:

I've been reached out to people and I know you have too, and they ask you, how do you do

this?

351

:

Or this is what I'm thinking, or can I chew your ear off about the industry?

352

:

And I remember one time I reached out to Mikey, just about some advice on just like, even

just the engineering side.

353

:

And you're always concerned, at least for me and a bit of the other kind of music side of

the industry that I've been in over

354

:

the last decade or so, you're kind of afraid to ask people about, well, what would you do

here?

355

:

Or am I thinking of this the right way?

356

:

Because everyone's like, well, you're coming for my spot, right?

357

:

And the thing is, the unwritten rule is that there are no spots.

358

:

You make your own spot.

359

:

And as you continue to grow, you figure out your lane, you figure out what you do and

being able to, yeah.

360

:

And being able to have people in this industry who it's like, oh, here's what I'm

thinking.

361

:

Here's what I should charge.

362

:

Here's how I should go about this.

363

:

Here's something to think about when I'm writing this theme.

364

:

Here's something to watch out for.

365

:

All these different things.

366

:

People have asked me that and people that I'm just like, wait, you've been doing this.

367

:

Like you should really, you're coming to me.

368

:

That's, that's pretty cool.

369

:

And you know, it just helps you not just figure out the way that you're doing things, but

it also helps you align in a way.

370

:

kind of the industry, like, you did this for this person.

371

:

Is that how it's supposed to be?

372

:

Well, this is kind of how I do it.

373

:

we do this the same way.

374

:

Oh, I did this a little bit differently.

375

:

I approached it like this.

376

:

I approach all these things kind of, okay, well, this is what you do.

377

:

And it kind of, I don't want to use the word standardizes because maybe I just did, but

what it does is it helps level the playing field for everybody.

378

:

And if someone does one thing, it's like, well, try this.

379

:

You know, there are some people who I talk to about when it comes to

380

:

you know, how to charge and things like that.

381

:

I have a certain way that I go about it and I tell people this is what's worked for me.

382

:

This is what makes most sense and how you can really grow.

383

:

know, whenever you write a theme for somebody, it's going with them.

384

:

But you can use that to do a lot of things.

385

:

You can do your own socials.

386

:

You can make a music video for those.

387

:

You can make a visualizer.

388

:

You can really put a lot of yourself and put everything behind that brand and grow it too.

389

:

And I think that

390

:

you know, the more everyone's connecting and finding out what everyone's doing.

391

:

Like you brought up these wolves before Darren Fisher, like the covers of the songs he's

done for Liv Morgan, the covers of the song he did for Adam Page, the one you did with him

392

:

with LA night.

393

:

These are all banger tracks, right?

394

:

So he goes and does videos for me, does the visual as he puts them up.

395

:

The MJF version that he's done.

396

:

I would always argue.

397

:

I'm pretty sure that they were singing the lyrics to his song at Wembley or one of the big

shows.

398

:

I know people just do the da da da da da da da, but I'm almost positive that even though

that's not the theme he uses in AEW, like with Darren's version, your boy is almost

399

:

positive that he's heard those lyrics coming through the speakers before.

400

:

I don't know.

401

:

I'm just saying, like you put those things out there, you do the work, you put it, and

like you said, you have no idea where it's gonna go, but that also comes from talking to

402

:

people and being like, would you recommend doing this?

403

:

And a lot of the times, unless it's like some crazy,

404

:

Like, I don't think that's a good idea to approach it like that.

405

:

Most of us are just like inspiring each other and motivating each other and being like,

Hey, yeah, try that.

406

:

Cause that could work and then let us know how it went and we'll see what else we could

do.

407

:

Yeah.

408

:

So cool.

409

:

know what's I said this because I look at it and I look at everything in relation to

sports in many ways because music and sports have a lot of direct correlation when it

410

:

comes to certain things like.

411

:

When it comes to yourself, when it comes to me, Megarann, if there's a, or you can look at

it in baseball, basketball, football, if there's a Pro Bowl for the NFL or the NBA

412

:

All-Star game, us three are starting every year, We're starting players on the team every

year.

413

:

So with that being said, we have to find ways to be able to

414

:

branch out and help others and not only help others but just come up with a system because

there is no system.

415

:

There is no direct, there's not like John and Montesey started a talent agency and

together they split it 50-50.

416

:

I handle the hip hop side, you handle the other genres and we come up with this system of

this is what you should be charging, this is what you should be doing.

417

:

It's all the

418

:

connection based in a field and then you gotta learn how to market it.

419

:

But I always tell people too that, and I have to be real here, the people that are coming

up after us, I think, you know, when we decide to hang it up, I do think depending on

420

:

where the wrestling industry is, it's gonna be a little tougher for them to try to

reinvent the wheel.

421

:

I think they will.

422

:

But it's going to be a little tougher because you see what Josiah Williams has done.

423

:

Like you see what he's done when he first came out, what Josiah Williams did.

424

:

That was innovative.

425

:

You see what you have done, which has been innovative.

426

:

You see what I did has what is just a work ethic approach, which is innovative.

427

:

You even see, you know, when my brother, when I put my brother Anthony Kenyon in and then

you see what he did with the character, with the AEW character.

428

:

That wasn't done.

429

:

So.

430

:

You know, and seeing where the wrestling industry is where now hip hop and wrestling and

music and wrestling is kind of becoming the thing.

431

:

That next crop of guys are going to have to do some really innovative stuff.

432

:

And I'm not saying they can't, I'm rooting for them to do it and I believe they will.

433

:

But it's just, you're going to have to take what we've all done and remix it and put it in

a way to where, okay, these guys did it this way.

434

:

How can I get to this level?

435

:

But how can I try to do it?

436

:

a different way.

437

:

Like we're all vessels of our inspirations.

438

:

Like we're all vessels of our inspirations.

439

:

We take a little bit of everybody we're inspired by and just make that our own.

440

:

Like I'm, like my inspirations are like Nas and Keanu Reeves and a lot of people like just

different things and I just put all that into my, either my demeanor, my personality, my

441

:

look or anything like that.

442

:

So.

443

:

I think that the next crop of people, like I said, I'm so anybody out there for the ropes

and wrist podcast, for you young man or you young woman out there that is watching this,

444

:

and that young kid that is a huge wrestling fan and loves music, you guys have an

opportunity to take this to a whole new level.

445

:

You have to be innovative.

446

:

And with the way technology and the way, you know, AEW is growing and WWE is growing, it's

possible.

447

:

I am rooting for you and I believe you can do it.

448

:

But you have to be innovative with today of today's world and you have to work hard.

449

:

The work ethic you're going to have to put into this is going to be incredible and you're

going to have to take what John has done.

450

:

You're going to have to take what Mega Man has done, what I've done.

451

:

Josiah, you name it, Mikey Ruckus, whoever, and you're just gonna have to find a way to

build it.

452

:

And I believe it's possible, but you're just gonna have to find that niche to make it

different than what we've done, which I'm rooting for.

453

:

Yeah.

454

:

yeah.

455

:

And you, think you feel that support from everybody.

456

:

I know I'm rooting for him.

457

:

I know Mikey's rooting for him.

458

:

I know you're rooting for him.

459

:

I know everyone's rooting and it's like, we just want to see it continue to grow.

460

:

You know, I know for me, I kind of created this brand around the wrestling entrance theme

song composer.

461

:

I know you have theme song King, you know, yours is much better.

462

:

I think in terms of people say it themes song King than wrestling entrance theme song

composer.

463

:

I'll shorten that at some point to something, but like, you know, it's

464

:

me say this.

465

:

Let me say this.

466

:

I'm going to say this because it was a brand that I, you know, a brand that I didn't,

whether it's Megaran, whether it's you, we're all kings, man.

467

:

We're all kings.

468

:

And we're all kings, you know, even back from the early civilization days.

469

:

every king had their own, they ruled their own land.

470

:

You know, you had food, I had gold.

471

:

We traded.

472

:

You know what mean?

473

:

Hey, those, John, John does the farms.

474

:

Man, let's, let's, we have gold over here.

475

:

They need gold to build their civilization.

476

:

I don't know if anybody out there is, you know, this might be nerdy of me, but I'm gonna

say it.

477

:

If you played the video game, Age of Empires, and you started with one person and you

build a colony with that and

478

:

You know, you had ally groups when you build that team.

479

:

had ally bases, you know what I mean?

480

:

had, you you built with your allies.

481

:

So you would go and you would trade wood with that colony.

482

:

And I would have food or John would have gold and the other person would have stone.

483

:

And everybody traded with each other to keep the colonies moving.

484

:

But everybody had their own kings and that ran their own domain.

485

:

you with what you're doing, you're a king in your domain and myself and Megaran, that's

all that the branding was, was to show people that we all could be kings in this.

486

:

And I never wanted it to be something to where it seems like, because when I first started

saying that, a lot of people, you know how this is, man, everybody gets competitive and

487

:

they took it as, man, it wasn't that, it was saying.

488

:

at all, yeah.

489

:

was saying, we all could be, we're all kings.

490

:

And you know, it was, it might've been considered a bull statement at the time, but it was

just a marketing thing and a thing to help build it up with the work ethic that was being

491

:

put in.

492

:

So when people say that, I'm like, no, we're all, everybody, everybody has a share in the

land because I'm necessarily just in the hip hop and the hip hop rock stage.

493

:

We need, we need a John out there, kill it, because he does something that I don't do.

494

:

There's a lot of people that, you know, bring so much to this culture.

495

:

There's a lot of people that bring different things.

496

:

And also too, you have to learn how to pass the ball as well.

497

:

I think that, you know, I take pride in developing Swerve as an artist.

498

:

take time in, I take pride in bringing Anthony King in.

499

:

I take pride in Rich Lata.

500

:

I take pride in these people that, you know, I might've made a phone call or helped

develop or.

501

:

help build their network because that's what it's all about.

502

:

And you can only do so much by yourself.

503

:

There's only so far you can go literally by yourself before you reach a limit.

504

:

And you need allies, you need teammates to help build what you're trying to do.

505

:

If you try to do everything by yourself or if you don't have that network, it's gonna

mess, you're only gonna go but so far because you know how this industry is.

506

:

You get to the top and then everybody gets used to you.

507

:

And you, I believe in the Chris Jericho effect.

508

:

Like I've had five, six different monikers this whole time.

509

:

Like, and cause I believe in reinventing yourself.

510

:

And I learned that from Chris Jericho.

511

:

When, you know, from, you know, Y2J to the list, to the serious guy with the suit, to, you

know what I mean?

512

:

The, the Ocho to, you know what I mean?

513

:

The, the, the, the,

514

:

Yeah.

515

:

The Pain Maker, like he's, he did that.

516

:

that's what I did.

517

:

Themes on King was the very first thing I did.

518

:

Then it was the Titan.

519

:

Then it was Swerve City Teasy, where I just rap with Swerve and I built that group, Swerve

City.

520

:

Then it was, the Themes on King, the Titan, Swerve City.

521

:

And now I'm in Lord Raiden mode, where it's like I'm Lord Raiden, Swerve is Liu Kang.

522

:

And I literally was like, hey, you're the one.

523

:

that needs to win the tournament.

524

:

And I'm kind of like, I'm established, I'm here.

525

:

There's nothing I can do that people that say, man, know, monster that's in the wrestling

world, that's the way I look at it.

526

:

So it was like, hey, if I'm Lord of Raiden, I need to build a army of people that can help

win the tournament.

527

:

I'm already here.

528

:

So now.

529

:

I need to get, you know, I need to, need my Kung Lao.

530

:

I need my Sonya Blade.

531

:

need, you know what mean?

532

:

I need the people to participate, Johnny Cage.

533

:

I need those people to participate.

534

:

That's the only way this is going to grow.

535

:

So I look at this from a Mortal Kombat aspect.

536

:

I'm the hugest Mortal Kombat fan.

537

:

So that's how I look at it.

538

:

So the Lord Raiden thing, like I just brought, I now just built a group called, we're

going to be called Lord of Mortals.

539

:

And it's a, song that played on Ring of Honor was a group, do synth, they do synth,

singing, drums, guitar, they're a synth band called Immortal Girlfriend.

540

:

I just got them their first placement in wrestling.

541

:

So now we're working on some projects together and it's a totally different thing that

hasn't been done in wrestling with the sound.

542

:

The sound hasn't been done before.

543

:

So now this gives me an opportunity to be able to do something else and really.

544

:

dive into what Lord Raiden is.

545

:

Something separate from just the pure hip hop side.

546

:

So it's, you always have to reinvent yourself.

547

:

You always have to do something that is unique, that is different and find new ways to do

it.

548

:

Like Prince and Chris Jericho are the greatest at that.

549

:

Prince would always, even though he was putting out like an album a year, sometimes two

albums a year, he would always switch something up.

550

:

every time, his haircut, the way he looked, his sound, he always switched something up.

551

:

to be a legend of that elk and to be out since the late seventies to when he passed away,

Prince always reinvented something.

552

:

He made a tweet, David Bowie, I'm gonna add him too.

553

:

David Bowie was phenomenal at that, at switching up something every single time.

554

:

You know, he, every album or every couple of years, he would just switch.

555

:

He would go through the years where he was wearing the makeup and the tight clothes.

556

:

And then David Bowie would switch into just being in the suit with the haircut, just in

the suit.

557

:

Then he would switch to, you know, he would switch to another aesthetic or a mixture.

558

:

He always had something.

559

:

So it's about reinventing.

560

:

It's about reinventing yourself as well.

561

:

that's the, you know, that's where the whole theme song king thing started from.

562

:

and just being able to build brands, but to also let you know that we're all kings as

well.

563

:

And I love that.

564

:

And I think that now we got to start talking about specifically some of the themes that

you've worked on and some of the ones that you're most known for.

565

:

We'll be here for a while, ladies and gentlemen, if we talk about all of them, but we got

a couple that we're going to really dive into first.

566

:

And let's start off with that final battle one first, because one day I'm sitting at home

watching Final Battle and all of a sudden you post, hey, check out what they did.

567

:

And then AEW and Ring of Honor are like, oh, check out this new song with you and Immortal

Girlfriend.

568

:

So I know that you said you started working with-

569

:

them recently and you're going to be doing some more with them.

570

:

But how do you get the call to have a song done for final battle?

571

:

Let's go over that.

572

:

Well, um...

573

:

I'm not the kind of person that tries to abuse my connects.

574

:

I am a person that believes in timing.

575

:

And I'm not the kind of person to be like, man, I need a song on, hey man, can I get this

song played on this pay-per-view and this pay-per-view and this pay-per-view?

576

:

I get my voice heard a lot and I don't want to drown it out.

577

:

You know what I mean?

578

:

So my voice gets heard a lot all over the world, all the time.

579

:

So this record, I said, okay.

580

:

I wanna do something for Ring of Honor on their biggest show, but I wanna make sure it's

the right record and I wanna make sure that when I contact AEW that it's a record that

581

:

makes sense and it's not just me just trying to have my voice heard, just send and stuff.

582

:

Nah, I'ma go some time, I'ma go a period of time, they'll hear me on the Sammy record.

583

:

Everything is about timing.

584

:

I have this study down to psychology.

585

:

I literally have this down to a science on psychology.

586

:

And I thoroughly believe that when I'm done, I'm going to write a book on this all.

587

:

And it's gonna be e-books or anybody that wants to learn about this lane and things like

that.

588

:

You know, you can either hit me up for a consultation, but I think if when I write this

book and I'm out the game and I'm done, I can help really other people with this.

589

:

So really the song came about, a motor girlfriend.

590

:

We made a great record, one of my favorite records I've done in a while.

591

:

And then I hit them up and I said, hey man, can you guys play this?

592

:

This is called Final Battle.

593

:

It's about a ring of honor, but also about being able to overcome things in life.

594

:

And then they said, yeah, we'll get it through the avenues and if we like it, we'll use

it.

595

:

And then in typical AEW fashion, the night before the show, Mikey hit me up and he said,

hey.

596

:

We want to play it.

597

:

Can you approve it?

598

:

And I'm like, yeah, I sent everything over.

599

:

So I ended up promoting a girlfriend.

600

:

I told them.

601

:

They were ecstatic about it.

602

:

And I'm like, and they were like, OK, it's a go.

603

:

I didn't think it was going to be played because I didn't hear anything.

604

:

I sent it to them a couple of weeks ago.

605

:

And you know how the music industry is.

606

:

You can send some.

607

:

You're like, OK, they didn't use it.

608

:

And you just move on.

609

:

But I got a call from Mikey.

610

:

literally a week, a day before, a few hours actually before the show, hey, you wanna use

it?

611

:

Okay, cool, let's do it.

612

:

So that's really how it goes, but I don't try to do that all the time.

613

:

I don't.

614

:

Right, and it sounds like you had the idea of, this was representative of, I created the

song and I thought it would be a good fit.

615

:

So you know what, let me at least pitch it to them.

616

:

Worst case scenario, they don't use it.

617

:

say, hey, thanks.

618

:

They listen to it they're inspired by it.

619

:

Best case scenario, they turn around and they say, hey, you wrote this about Ring of

Honor, about Final Battle, about, like you said, the come up and everything.

620

:

So you know what, if we wanna use it, let's go ahead and use it.

621

:

So you're just putting yourself out there.

622

:

But I think it's important to say, you're not pitching songs all the time.

623

:

You're like you said, you're figuring out, okay, cool.

624

:

This is coming up.

625

:

This is the track I got.

626

:

Let me go ahead and drop it here because I think it makes sense for what we're doing.

627

:

Yep, that's it.

628

:

It's all strategy.

629

:

It's not trying to, a lot of people try to, man, let me submit, let me submit one for All

In.

630

:

Let me submit one for All Out.

631

:

Let me submit one for, you know, Grand Slam.

632

:

Let me submit, nah, don't do, I wouldn't do that.

633

:

I would see, would try to record some stuff, see what the best record is, and then six

months, a year down the line, if you see a spot that you think it works,

634

:

You know, then submit it and for that one particular occasion and see what happens.

635

:

know, see what comes out of it.

636

:

You know, you never know.

637

:

But I don't abuse it.

638

:

You know what mean?

639

:

I don't at all.

640

:

don't...

641

:

Okay, I did one for Ringo Vard.

642

:

Time to shoot for the next AEW pay-per-view.

643

:

Nah, you can't do that.

644

:

It doesn't work that way.

645

:

that was the strategy behind that.

646

:

But I really, really love that record.

647

:

I look forward to doing more with them.

648

:

And me and you got to lock in on a project as well.

649

:

We need to do a full project together, bro.

650

:

Just EP.

651

:

Me and you need to lock in on something.

652

:

Yeah, we talked about it last year and for me, I'm just like, I just got to be able to

lock in and get some songs done.

653

:

Yeah, let's do it this year.

654

:

Let's make it happen.

655

:

So.

656

:

it 2025.

657

:

Now.

658

:

Let's try.

659

:

try to get an EP out together.

660

:

Yeah, I would love that.

661

:

And it's just so cool that you're talking about it from a perspective of like, Hey, here's

a song I wrote about something that I'm really passionate about.

662

:

You know, you're talking about that final battle theme and you're also saying like, Hey,

here's a song that was about this and about everything that that pay-per-view represents.

663

:

little bit different, obviously, than working with someone like Sammy Guevara, who you've

done a couple of themes for now.

664

:

Obviously the biggest one that is going to come to most people's minds is take flight with

665

:

that theme, that's the theme that everyone has heard on AEW.

666

:

Was that a theme that he had come to you before time and said, hey, I'm going to AEW, so I

need a theme and you worked on that with him?

667

:

Or was it something that he started using a little bit before time and then as he got

signed to AEW, it was like, hey, we're gonna go ahead and do this, I'm taking this theme

668

:

with me.

669

:

How did that process work?

670

:

then just when you start working with him, what's the process in terms of getting the song

where he needs it to be also?

671

:

Yes, great question.

672

:

So Sammy was a situation where he heard my name before and obviously through his

friendship with Swerve, he's like, yo man, I need you to make this theme for me.

673

:

So I asked him, said, how do you want this to sound?

674

:

And he's like, I just wanted to, you know, to be like, I just want to come from a moment.

675

:

I just want my moment.

676

:

I want to just, I want the song just to be about the feeling, how I feel, you know, how

I'm feeling the, my rise to the top and my come up.

677

:

So, you know, obviously he was at the inception of AEW when it first started.

678

:

So I recorded it and I went through a lot of different music and I was like, huh, how is

this going to work?

679

:

How is that going to work?

680

:

Okay.

681

:

So then when I found that beat that sounded like, like, like space, like

682

:

The beat sounds like you're like in outer space kind of kind of like in an atmospheric

sound so I said, okay, I'm gonna use this Funny thing is He's told the story before and I

683

:

get a random phone call from Mikey before AEW even starts and He's like, hey man We want

to use the record You know, um, Sammy was kind of like yeah about it at first cuz he

684

:

didn't know

685

:

But the person that told him to use it, and I will always give him his praise, was Cody

Rhodes.

686

:

Cody Rhodes told him it was a hit record.

687

:

Cody Rhodes said, you need to use this, this is a hit song.

688

:

So I am forever in debt to Cody for saluting that, for giving Sammy the vote of confidence

and telling him this is the what.

689

:

This is the record.

690

:

And you know, it's phenomenal that, you know.

691

:

Cody did that, that Sammy has kept his relationship with me.

692

:

He's one of my good friends in this.

693

:

He's a great brother, him and Tay and just every time, whatever, you know, they are great.

694

:

They are great people, you know, they are great people and I am, you know, grateful for

them and that relationship I've had with Sammy.

695

:

Obviously we shot the music video, Energy, together and...

696

:

You know, it was just a lot of fun to be able to build this relationship with him.

697

:

I think if you are a artist and you could find two or three wrestlers that you can just

build that relationship with when they come to you and they trust you and you can maintain

698

:

that that that brotherhood or brother sisterhood thing or family dynamic, then it's great.

699

:

I believe every artist should have at least two or three go tos where you guys just stick

together, stick together through it.

700

:

and they come to you for the catalog, they trust you and you build that rapport with them.

701

:

So Sammy, it's been phenomenal, man.

702

:

That record's been played everywhere.

703

:

Like you said, I just played in New Japan, the mashup with Dustin Rhodes and to see Dustin

Rhodes and Sammy coming out to something that your voice is on, you don't, that feeling

704

:

never goes away, man.

705

:

It's just, it's phenomenal to be honest.

706

:

Honestly, I was half asleep.

707

:

I wasn't even watching the show.

708

:

And Rich Lada.

709

:

Messages to me.

710

:

He said hey, yo, man, you know, your song is played in New Japan I'm like word because as

far as what I know, you know, Kevin Knight's been using my theme over there.

711

:

So I was like, okay, that's dope but then I Said word.

712

:

He's like, yeah, I'm watching it right now Sammy and Dustin just came out.

713

:

I said, okay, I got a post about this I said, oh man, I got a market this.

714

:

Oh, man I got it.

715

:

I got to get in my marketing bag cuz that's that's legendary

716

:

just for everyone to that sits there it says, everyone knows so far and advanced when

these things are coming out and all of us have these giant marketing plans.

717

:

Remember final battle happened a couple hours before time and Montese he found out

basically as it was happening that they were using his theme in new Japan.

718

:

It ain't always planned ladies and gentlemen, just so you know, sometimes we just got that

post that goes quick up and we're like, Hey, that's really cool.

719

:

Thanks for telling me guy.

720

:

Yeah, absolutely man.

721

:

It's, it's, it's, but it's a blessing.

722

:

Here's the thing, bro.

723

:

It's a blessing to still want to be heard after all this time, because you go through

these points where people get tired of you and we're in a society where people get tired

724

:

of the winners.

725

:

They get tired of people that's constantly winning or successful.

726

:

And you know, people like to root for the underdog a lot of the times, which is just the

way the world is.

727

:

But for me to be at the level that I am, but people still want to hear my voice, still

hear what I have to say after all this time.

728

:

Next month on the 20th, February 20th, it'll be 11 years that I'm here.

729

:

And to still be relevant, to still be sought after, to still have my music played 11 years

later, I never would have thought this.

730

:

All this was random.

731

:

It was not no, well, I'm going to make theme songs.

732

:

It was a random idea.

733

:

It just popped in my head and it changed my life.

734

:

It was not no plan where I was like watching Stone Cold Steve Austin in the fifth grade

and said, I want to do this.

735

:

I had all the WWF, the music albums like everybody else did.

736

:

I was singing the D'Lo Brown, Danger at the Door theme song.

737

:

I was singing the Wolf Pack, which still still to this day.

738

:

Disclaimer.

739

:

I have out of every single hip hop song I've made, I have never made a song better than

the NWO Wolf Pack.

740

:

Never, and I never will.

741

:

But nothing will be more monumental than that howl and then that beat.

742

:

And I've made some great songs, but that's still the goat to me.

743

:

I think that it's just all about building those relationships.

744

:

also too, don't know, like I said, I didn't know the New Japan thing was happening.

745

:

I didn't know.

746

:

I didn't know.

747

:

the Ring of Honor thing was happening until the day before, you just don't know.

748

:

And I think that people just have to trust the work that they're putting in and being able

to figure out, okay, how can I take this and capitalize on it?

749

:

A lot of people don't know how to capitalize on it.

750

:

They'll post, hey, I did this song for this person and then they don't capitalize on it,

you know?

751

:

And it's just, it's great because I'm just grateful.

752

:

that I'm still here.

753

:

I'm grateful that I'm still wanted, grateful that I'm still respected.

754

:

There's no scandalous stuff coming out of my name.

755

:

There's nothing.

756

:

I don't have any issues with nobody.

757

:

I'm just grateful to be here.

758

:

And I'm blessed, man.

759

:

I'm blessed to still want to be here.

760

:

And I think that if we kind of tie that all back into Sammy Guevara's theme, the Take

Flight one, I think you nailed the lyrics on this for what he was looking for too.

761

:

And I think that's a testament to you getting inside what he's looking to bring out.

762

:

I've been pushing for many moments like this.

763

:

This time is undervalued.

764

:

No one could ever miss.

765

:

This is my chance moment of bliss.

766

:

Like all that kind of stuff is so in the pocket of, if you think about where Sammy was at

that point, and even where he is now, he's still one of these guys that while he is...

767

:

a you can consider him uh...

768

:

long-term a w in the wrestling industry he's still getting his name out there you know if

you don't use industry for fifteen twenty years and what not and he's somebody who he

769

:

comes to you he ends up saying i want people to know that i'm on the come up i want them

to know that i'm gonna make the best this opportunity and then you've got this on it he's

770

:

been a bad guy yet but when you hear the lyrics there it's less about him being a good guy

or bad guy

771

:

and more about him recognizing, okay, cool.

772

:

Like at this point in time where I am, I need to be able to show people that it is my

time.

773

:

I need to show people that I'm not gonna get trounced on from like all the bigger names.

774

:

Like this is my moment to really let you know who I am and that I'm here.

775

:

And I'm grateful for this moment.

776

:

I think those lyrics really reflect that.

777

:

Thank you, bro.

778

:

Thank you, man.

779

:

Honestly, I wrote that song in like five minutes, bro.

780

:

I'm not saying that to be bashful, braggy or anything.

781

:

That's one of them songs where it just came to me and I wrote that song literally in like,

it took like 10 minutes.

782

:

I was like, I feel this.

783

:

And then there are certain songs where you sit for like three days, you be like, damn,

like, what am I gonna do?

784

:

Like my writing process has kind of changed.

785

:

Everybody wants to know like like what's the recording process the writing process?

786

:

It's it's literally I Will go to the studio because I do have a home studio, but I won't

use it as much so I'll book a studio session and I'll book our time And I'm so used to

787

:

recording I could do like six songs in an hour Five six song five six there's times in the

studio.

788

:

I've gone in the studio with

789

:

six beats an hour and I gotta record six songs an hour and I'll do it.

790

:

Hook verse, sometimes two verses, I'm just cranking them out, just cranking them out.

791

:

it's just, but certain songs, like Wasami's song took that, like a song that took a while

using my theme Swerve in like:

792

:

That song was the longest theme I took, cause Swerve is.

793

:

has a very particular ear.

794

:

So this is before he was even making music.

795

:

And when I did that song with him, that song took about three, four months to make.

796

:

And I'm like, it's never taken as long to do a song, but it ended up being what it was.

797

:

So you just gotta go off feeling, bro.

798

:

You just gotta go off feeling in this.

799

:

You have to.

800

:

yeah.

801

:

And you know what, though?

802

:

Like, there are some songs that take that short time.

803

:

I remember that I've told this a couple times.

804

:

There was one theme I did for championship wrestling where it was like, we need a theme.

805

:

When do you need it?

806

:

Half hour.

807

:

damn.

808

:

All right.

809

:

And for me, I'm sitting there going, all right, let's stack the orchestra.

810

:

Let's stack the beak.

811

:

Here we go.

812

:

But you know what?

813

:

The thing I always tell people about some of those quicker turnaround ones, you do what

you know, and you do what you know is going to work.

814

:

Right.

815

:

And I'm not saying you have this

816

:

You're saying it took you 10 minutes to write that song.

817

:

It's not like it sounds like you had a time constraint, but when you have something that

just flows, you run with it.

818

:

If you've got a time constraint and someone's got a project for you and you're like, hey,

I need it within this time, that's the point where you can still be creative with it, but

819

:

you really put the blinders on and you go, all right, this is what it's not going to be.

820

:

This is what it's going to be.

821

:

I'm going to use this term that I use with a lot of my students too.

822

:

I classify music into two genres a lot of the times.

823

:

I classify it into art music and work music.

824

:

And it doesn't mean that the work music can't be artistically fulfilling or fulfilling,

but what the difference for me between work music and art music is, is art music, you

825

:

could take as long as you want.

826

:

You could sit on a song for five years.

827

:

You can make all the little tweaks you want.

828

:

You can do all that kind of stuff.

829

:

But once you start putting a deadline on something, even if it's a piece of music that you

want to put out, you put a goal and say, you know what?

830

:

I got like six months to throw this album together.

831

:

I got a week to throw this together.

832

:

Someone comes to you and says, and he's just done in a couple of weeks or in like a day or

an hour.

833

:

That's the work music.

834

:

And in that, that's where you take all of this experience that you have, all these

different things you've come to experience in your life with music.

835

:

And you go, all right, who's this?

836

:

What's the project?

837

:

What are we doing?

838

:

Let's roll.

839

:

And it's, you know, for those who haven't tried to do that, where you have that kind of

barometer or that kind of ceiling.

840

:

It's really cool to try that because sometimes you get into that mode where as a creative,

and this happens to me and this happened to me years earlier in my career a lot more,

841

:

you'll sit down at your computer and go, or anywhere you are with your instrument and go,

I can do everything, which means that you're gonna do everything.

842

:

So it becomes this paralysis of you're gonna do absolutely nothing.

843

:

So when all of a sudden you put these things in your head where you're like, all right,

cool, this is the kind of thing I'm doing, here's what it's gonna be.

844

:

That also gives you that freedom to go, what if I tried this here?

845

:

that's really cool.

846

:

Going back to what you said before about innovation.

847

:

Okay, well, this is the kind of thing we're doing.

848

:

All right, what if I threw this in here?

849

:

What if I'm working on a piece that's for championship wrestling, it needs orchestra and

all this kind of stuff?

850

:

Well, what can I do a little bit differently?

851

:

Maybe I throw this guitar line on it.

852

:

you don't hear that all the time.

853

:

That's pretty cool.

854

:

Now it becomes unique, but you use all of this kind of restriction or rather this ceiling

is what we'll call it.

855

:

to be able to say, know what?

856

:

Here's what works and here's what it is.

857

:

And I'm not saying that you had that restriction, but you know what?

858

:

If you're writing the song, same thing, the art piece takes you 10 minutes.

859

:

Hey, don't complain about the process.

860

:

That's totally cool.

861

:

absolutely,

862

:

Now, we'll talk a little bit too about Shane Taylor promotions because at different

iterations in our career, we've worked with Shane Taylor on different themes, right?

863

:

When he first came into Ring of Honor and came into AEW, he was using a theme that Monster

Tarver, his son and I had worked on together.

864

:

And then he ended up using the theme, which is just a banger theme that you have for him

now.

865

:

How did that process start of putting together that specific theme?

866

:

out of anybody that, again, I've worked with so many people, you've worked with so many

people, Shane Taylor, strap him up, man.

867

:

Put the title on him.

868

:

Do whatever you gotta do.

869

:

Strap that boy up, man.

870

:

He's awesome.

871

:

He's so good.

872

:

How did that process come with starting the Shane Taylor promotions theme and what was

your kind of mentality with writing the lyrics and working on that piece?

873

:

Well, so I first started working with Shane in Ring of Honor because I did his theme

different and then he went to...

874

:

So I did different, then he did Lines in the Jungle, believe with you guys, Shots of

Tarver, you got that's not...

875

:

That theme's phenomenal.

876

:

You guys aced that shit.

877

:

Sorry for language.

878

:

Incredible, incredible record you guys did.

879

:

And real quick, I'm just gonna do a sidebar on that before you keep going.

880

:

Shout out to Tarver's son also, because with me and Tarver, we take a lot of the credit

for that.

881

:

I'm grateful for the work that I did on it, but his son doesn't get enough credit for

that.

882

:

I just want to always put him over, because that beat is awesome.

883

:

Everything he did on that was just so good.

884

:

I'm sorry, I just wanted to put him over real quick.

885

:

Keep going with you and doing the Shane Taylor stuff, yeah.

886

:

So he wanted to make something that sounded like an anthem towards what his vision was for

Shane Taylor promotions.

887

:

So he called me and people don't realize that Shane Taylor actually could write music if

he wanted to because...

888

:

When we did different, kind of, you I don't talk the way I like, I just fight the way I

like.

889

:

He gave me that.

890

:

That's what he wanted me to say.

891

:

Then when it came to this, he said, just ask T P.

892

:

He said, I just wanted it to be about the, about my group and the promotion that I'm

trying to build.

893

:

And I said, okay.

894

:

I said, you know what?

895

:

Cool.

896

:

Well, we'll do that.

897

:

So, um, I got with, uh, you know,

898

:

Grammy nominated producer Mike Snell, who's phenomenal.

899

:

He's a dope producer.

900

:

And I said, all right, man, let me get you with ISAT, to help your brand, let me get you

with a Grammy nominated producer to help your brand and let's make this.

901

:

So me and Mike Snell was in the studio.

902

:

And this is one of the first few times that when we were recording together, we co-wrote

it together.

903

:

He produced me, he actually produced me.

904

:

wow.

905

:

And we, I literally didn't write it down.

906

:

I was just going, I was just saying it.

907

:

I was like, Shane Taylor promotions, making the slopes of right hand.

908

:

And I was like, we trying to, he's trying to figure out the right line together.

909

:

It was like, right hand.

910

:

He said, how about I said something, something right hand, something devotion.

911

:

He's like, no, no, no, no.

912

:

He said, what about commotion?

913

:

He said, try commotion.

914

:

Shane Taylor promotion, stepping in the ring, I'm explosive, right hand and the commotion.

915

:

And then he's like, okay, stop there.

916

:

So then if you can, you can hear it in the recording.

917

:

If you have a trained ear that I'm going line for line in the recording, listen to the

song.

918

:

And this is a nugget, go listen, you guys go listen to STP and you will hear the breaks of

me going line for line in the song.

919

:

But that's how we did it.

920

:

We went line for line.

921

:

didn't, I didn't.

922

:

have my phone and just wrote it down and just went, Shane Taylor promotion, stepping in

the ring, I'm explosive, right hand and the commotion.

923

:

I didn't do that.

924

:

Everything was off memory.

925

:

I didn't write none of it down.

926

:

So it was, Shane Taylor promotion, stepping in the ring, I'm explosive.

927

:

Okay, stop that.

928

:

Right hand and the commotion, making waves like the ocean.

929

:

Okay.

930

:

Then we stop, go to sleep, causing hypnosis.

931

:

Then he's like, I like that one.

932

:

And then we just kept going line for line.

933

:

Lead the pen and you wave and your pain, you'd be hoping competition of smoking at the

end.

934

:

You'll be saying my slogan.

935

:

And it literally was we was just going line for line repeating it.

936

:

And then when we did the STP part, we literally did parts where I was in front of the mic.

937

:

He went into all the way in the back to the studio and went, STP like we're just in

different parts of the studio yelling STP.

938

:

in different spots, you know what I In different areas of the studio.

939

:

One of the funnest studio sessions I've ever had making a theme song, because it was one

of the first times I was actually being produced and it wasn't just the Mon-Teezy way.

940

:

You know what I mean?

941

:

It was great because I got to cohabitate and work together in writing this together, which

was a lot of fun.

942

:

So.

943

:

When he heard it, he loved it.

944

:

He loved the beat.

945

:

It sounded like a marching band, like an army.

946

:

And I look forward to doing that.

947

:

Hopefully I get to do that live someday.

948

:

Hopefully.

949

:

That's the one thing I really want to do for that one is do that live for Shane T because

I believe in him.

950

:

I believe that he has something special.

951

:

And I think that, you know, it really, really can be done.

952

:

Hopefully, you know.

953

:

Hopefully we can get you involved, get like a live band, get you on that guitar thing, get

you on that thing too.

954

:

Just get everybody involved.

955

:

I just want to make this a live experience for us to have fun.

956

:

Segue, guys, John was supposed to be on the take flight entrance.

957

:

For some reason, I pitched, because Sammy went in a live band.

958

:

I wanted a live band, but they just wanted me to do it.

959

:

And I was so down.

960

:

was like, damn, John, I apologize, brother.

961

:

Like we were that close.

962

:

We were this close to getting the live band performance of Take Flight.

963

:

And who knows?

964

:

Maybe the universe will happen again someday and we'll be able to have the band.

965

:

Who knows what'll happen with the way the universe works?

966

:

A &W want another performance and it'll happen.

967

:

Who knows?

968

:

Or we just go ahead and put together our version too.

969

:

Throw up a video for it.

970

:

The guys, all of us get together.

971

:

See what happens there.

972

:

Let's do it.

973

:

speaking my language, good sir.

974

:

We don't need their approval.

975

:

We can do it ourselves, brother.

976

:

Let's do it.

977

:

I like that idea.

978

:

I like that idea.

979

:

I would love that man.

980

:

And you know what?

981

:

It would give a different flair to it too.

982

:

Cause you'd obviously have the vibes of take flight upfront, but then you'd also have like

these rock elements with a little bit of the heavier guitars and live drums, dude, it be a

983

:

totally different take on it.

984

:

And that may also give Sammy some ideas, which is super cool too.

985

:

So.

986

:

man.

987

:

I will travel up there just to do that.

988

:

Yeah, let's make it happen.

989

:

And the other thing I want to bring up too is when you were talking about how you were in

the studio for Shane Taylor's theme, you were like, oh man, like we went to the other side

990

:

of the room.

991

:

We were doing all this different stuff.

992

:

It's so cool.

993

:

It's something that I wish I did more because I kind of do everything out of my main home

studio here.

994

:

A lot of the times I'm bringing in people from other places or sending me the files

afterwards.

995

:

And so for me, if you hear something like those gang vocals or something like that, more

than likely, that's me sitting in the studio with like 10 tracks of me just saying it over

996

:

and over, throwing effects on it, doing all that and be like, my God, it sounds so

massive.

997

:

It's like, yup, it's this mic and that computer.

998

:

But when you actually get to sit there and you go, you know what?

999

:

Like we're gonna go to different parts of the room and you're actually gonna get what the

room sounds like and you're gonna make it feel.

:

01:06:40,978 --> 01:06:43,678

It has a different feeling and a different dynamic.

:

01:06:44,078 --> 01:06:49,938

you know, you were talking about like how you were parsing this together, how it was line

by line by line.

:

01:06:49,938 --> 01:06:52,298

And that's a huge way that a lot of producers work.

:

01:06:52,298 --> 01:06:59,198

When we did Dragon Lee's theme pre-WWE, which Dragon Lee, we're going to be working on

something else for you.

:

01:06:59,198 --> 01:07:00,618

I will always be working for you.

:

01:07:00,618 --> 01:07:02,878

And I hope we can get something cleared up for WWE.

:

01:07:02,878 --> 01:07:04,118

TZ and I, we got you.

:

01:07:04,118 --> 01:07:05,178

We always got you.

:

01:07:05,178 --> 01:07:06,078

You know that.

:

01:07:06,078 --> 01:07:08,898

And when we put that theme together, man,

:

01:07:10,290 --> 01:07:13,590

I think this is how it's been with a couple of themes that we've worked on.

:

01:07:13,590 --> 01:07:15,050

I've sent you the track.

:

01:07:15,410 --> 01:07:21,070

You sent me some passes of you doing some things and then you're just like, place it where

you think.

:

01:07:21,070 --> 01:07:22,130

Like place it where I think.

:

01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:24,750

I'm like, it sounds great.

:

01:07:24,750 --> 01:07:25,450

I can place it anywhere.

:

01:07:25,450 --> 01:07:26,650

It's gonna sound awesome.

:

01:07:26,650 --> 01:07:28,490

But I like that process.

:

01:07:28,490 --> 01:07:31,810

It's a process a little bit different for me too, where we'll hop on the phone.

:

01:07:31,810 --> 01:07:32,770

I'm like, all right, cool.

:

01:07:32,770 --> 01:07:34,450

I'm placing it here, here and here.

:

01:07:34,450 --> 01:07:35,450

You got the hooks.

:

01:07:35,450 --> 01:07:37,170

You already know what you're doing there.

:

01:07:37,170 --> 01:07:40,220

And it's just a really cool process for me.

:

01:07:40,220 --> 01:07:47,269

Probably one of my favorite themes I've done with you and done in general was the Dragon

Lee theme pre WWE.

:

01:07:47,933 --> 01:07:48,508

Yeah.

:

01:07:48,508 --> 01:07:49,159

Yeah.

:

01:07:49,159 --> 01:07:54,403

It's because, I look at it like this, bro.

:

01:07:54,403 --> 01:07:58,226

If you look at, I'll use Michael Jackson.

:

01:07:58,587 --> 01:08:03,630

Michael Jackson has, there's like 10 writers on one song.

:

01:08:03,676 --> 01:08:08,595

10 participants on, let's say, PYT.

:

01:08:08,595 --> 01:08:11,478

There's like nine different songwriters on that record.

:

01:08:11,478 --> 01:08:14,716

So like, I feel like it's better.

:

01:08:14,716 --> 01:08:20,676

in collaboration to just trust the other person and get them more involved in the creative

process.

:

01:08:20,676 --> 01:08:26,356

So I'm gonna lay my vocals and say, hey, you put where you think it fits.

:

01:08:26,356 --> 01:08:32,476

Cause I know how it hears in my head, but I know that this is your sound, you're producing

it.

:

01:08:32,476 --> 01:08:40,416

So you, with the music, kind of know where it fits best as the person who created the

sounds of it.

:

01:08:40,416 --> 01:08:43,916

So I'm just going off the template of what you made.

:

01:08:43,916 --> 01:08:44,718

So.

:

01:08:44,718 --> 01:08:54,832

when I'd rather send you the vocals and then you figure out where it fits to in your head

to your sound than the other way around because I will say this.

:

01:08:56,538 --> 01:09:04,672

It's harder to find a Rick Rubin than it is to find a singer down the street.

:

01:09:05,472 --> 01:09:15,157

It's harder to find a Teddy Riley or Pharrell Williams than it is to find a singer who

could sing at Walmart and with the right training they could sing.

:

01:09:15,157 --> 01:09:21,020

But the person who hears it and visions it are harder to find.

:

01:09:21,020 --> 01:09:21,900

So.

:

01:09:22,362 --> 01:09:33,839

With you, when you did the Dragon Lee theme, it was like, okay, this is what I'm vocally

inspired to say, but take it and do what you want with it.

:

01:09:33,839 --> 01:09:36,941

Cause you'll know, it'll click better.

:

01:09:36,941 --> 01:09:39,953

Same thing I did with Darren with the LA Knight thing, same thing.

:

01:09:39,953 --> 01:09:41,904

I did the same exact process.

:

01:09:41,904 --> 01:09:48,068

I do the same exact process with whoever I collaborate with that makes the music and they

mix and they arrange it.

:

01:09:48,068 --> 01:09:49,244

You guys got it.

:

01:09:49,244 --> 01:09:49,884

You know what I mean?

:

01:09:49,884 --> 01:09:52,784

I'll hear it back 99 % of the time and sounds great.

:

01:09:52,784 --> 01:09:59,564

So I'm just, I'm just going to trust the collaborative process and it's just easier to

work with people that way.

:

01:09:59,564 --> 01:10:04,664

If it's a 50 50 thing and you go with what you're feeling, I go with what I'm feeling.

:

01:10:04,664 --> 01:10:05,564

It's just easier.

:

01:10:05,564 --> 01:10:07,524

It just makes music easier.

:

01:10:07,524 --> 01:10:14,384

And I look at it like this, honestly, it's just sounds, it sounds very brash, but it's the

truth.

:

01:10:15,004 --> 01:10:18,184

We're getting five cents like per stream, bro.

:

01:10:18,184 --> 01:10:18,886

Like.

:

01:10:18,886 --> 01:10:23,560

We're getting like, like the music industry is still trying to figure out the right race

to pay artists.

:

01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:24,981

And we're going through all this.

:

01:10:24,981 --> 01:10:29,225

I am not going to stress over a drum, a drum pattern, bro.

:

01:10:29,225 --> 01:10:35,170

Like, or a, don't like this one guitar string here, or I don't bro.

:

01:10:35,170 --> 01:10:37,031

Let's just put it out, bro.

:

01:10:37,232 --> 01:10:39,473

I just, I just, I just want to put it out there.

:

01:10:39,473 --> 01:10:42,956

If it sounds good, sounds clear enough, sounds clean enough.

:

01:10:42,956 --> 01:10:43,427

Okay.

:

01:10:43,427 --> 01:10:45,398

My vocal sound on point there.

:

01:10:45,398 --> 01:10:46,349

The timing is right.

:

01:10:46,349 --> 01:10:46,780

All right.

:

01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:47,430

Cool.

:

01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:51,044

When we put in the DSPs, let's get these royalties straight and let's just put it out

there, bro.

:

01:10:51,044 --> 01:10:53,846

Like I'm not, I've always been that way.

:

01:10:53,846 --> 01:10:56,299

I'm just like, let's just put the shot up.

:

01:10:56,299 --> 01:10:57,810

It sounds great.

:

01:10:57,830 --> 01:10:59,422

People love the Dragon Lee theme.

:

01:10:59,422 --> 01:11:02,194

People love the stuff that we've done together.

:

01:11:02,535 --> 01:11:05,488

And I'm just like, I just, I just want to make music.

:

01:11:05,488 --> 01:11:06,358

I just want to create.

:

01:11:06,358 --> 01:11:07,440

It sounds good.

:

01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:08,460

Let's do it.

:

01:11:09,008 --> 01:11:09,989

Yeah, absolutely.

:

01:11:09,989 --> 01:11:16,174

And you know, with Dragon Lee's theme, was funny too, because speaking with Dragon Lee and

trying to be like, all right, cool.

:

01:11:16,174 --> 01:11:16,865

What do you want?

:

01:11:16,865 --> 01:11:22,109

He kind of showed me a bit of what he had used before, you know, in all the different

promotions he was in.

:

01:11:22,109 --> 01:11:24,371

And I remember that we were going back and forth.

:

01:11:24,371 --> 01:11:28,064

And for me, I always like to get the instrumentals done first to be like, all right, cool.

:

01:11:28,064 --> 01:11:29,276

Do you like the direction?

:

01:11:29,276 --> 01:11:31,417

Once I get that, then we can bring in the vocals.

:

01:11:31,417 --> 01:11:36,946

Because again, as someone that doesn't do a lot of vocals, it's, that's the process for me

where I got to bring.

:

01:11:36,946 --> 01:11:39,646

somebody in and do collaborations and whatnot.

:

01:11:39,646 --> 01:11:41,806

So that's kind of once it gets out of my hands.

:

01:11:41,806 --> 01:11:44,026

And at that point it becomes, all right, cool.

:

01:11:44,026 --> 01:11:46,226

Well, now it's another person's studio time.

:

01:11:46,226 --> 01:11:47,906

It's another person's creativity.

:

01:11:47,906 --> 01:11:50,226

It's another person's gear that I'm not familiar with.

:

01:11:50,226 --> 01:11:53,926

It's another person's like, there's a lot of different technical things at that point.

:

01:11:53,926 --> 01:11:56,586

And I remember for so long, I would send this to Dragon Lee.

:

01:11:56,586 --> 01:11:57,766

I'd be like, what do you think?

:

01:11:57,766 --> 01:11:58,526

What do you think?

:

01:11:58,526 --> 01:11:59,766

What do you think without vocals?

:

01:11:59,766 --> 01:12:01,446

And he'd always be like, oh, it's really good.

:

01:12:01,446 --> 01:12:02,346

It just needs something.

:

01:12:02,346 --> 01:12:05,212

I'm like, okay, but at least do me the favor.

:

01:12:05,212 --> 01:12:07,173

Do you like it like without vocals?

:

01:12:07,173 --> 01:12:09,324

You know, he's like, yeah, yeah, but like it needs something else.

:

01:12:09,324 --> 01:12:12,682

I'm like, I promise you, as soon as we throw TZ's vocals on it, it's going to be fire.

:

01:12:12,682 --> 01:12:15,846

And he's like, yeah, you know, like go ahead and send it off.

:

01:12:15,846 --> 01:12:20,478

And then first time I sent it back to him, he literally like on the phone exploded.

:

01:12:20,478 --> 01:12:23,962

He was like, I don't know what you did, but it sounds so good.

:

01:12:23,962 --> 01:12:24,920

So much better.

:

01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:29,692

I'm like, I told you, we got the vocals on it as we did.

:

01:12:29,692 --> 01:12:33,914

And he was like, he was picking out all the things cause he had given me like, here's what

I want to say.

:

01:12:33,914 --> 01:12:34,854

Here's who I am.

:

01:12:34,854 --> 01:12:41,388

But again, it also makes sense when working with somebody like you and I and Kevin and all

these people who are also fans of wrestling.

:

01:12:41,388 --> 01:12:43,819

So we've seen him, we know who he is.

:

01:12:43,819 --> 01:12:51,643

And there may be some deeper things intrinsically that they're gonna go, you know what, I

want you to say this, or I want you to highlight this element of what I'm doing.

:

01:12:51,643 --> 01:12:53,685

But you know what, we're still fans of wrestling.

:

01:12:53,685 --> 01:12:54,815

We're still fans of these people.

:

01:12:54,815 --> 01:12:56,586

We still know about them.

:

01:12:56,586 --> 01:13:01,279

So it's kind of like, you're not starting off complete square one, not knowing anything.

:

01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:03,440

You're going into it knowing a bit of.

:

01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:10,992

his background, knowing the people that he's with, knowing, you know, that it could be

something where it's for the family and things like that.

:

01:13:10,992 --> 01:13:21,275

So there's like all of these different elements that come out and it's not a worry about

anything because at the end of the day, he hears it and he's like, ah, this is amazing.

:

01:13:21,275 --> 01:13:27,006

And I would love to hear that theme come up on WWE, but at the same time, I want to make

something new for him.

:

01:13:27,006 --> 01:13:29,917

And I know that he would love to have something new too.

:

01:13:29,917 --> 01:13:32,784

So if we can go ahead and make something happen, I mean,

:

01:13:32,784 --> 01:13:41,249

I'm saying if when we make something happen, because that's how we operate, ladies and

gentlemen, it's not if it's when and how that's how you got to reframe it too.

:

01:13:41,916 --> 01:13:43,568

There is no closed door, bro.

:

01:13:43,568 --> 01:13:54,273

We either breaking the door open, we're creating our own door, but there is no, yeah, we

don't, successful people don't believe in if, nah.

:

01:13:54,273 --> 01:13:56,726

We gonna find a way every single time.

:

01:13:57,202 --> 01:14:01,305

There's one I'm gonna ask you about too before we conclude our interview here.

:

01:14:01,605 --> 01:14:04,707

Because this one was a very fun one for me to do.

:

01:14:04,707 --> 01:14:10,351

And I think it was probably a little bit different than how you and I usually operate for

Leo Sparrow, son of the sun.

:

01:14:10,412 --> 01:14:13,854

Awesome wrestler up here in my area, really good dude.

:

01:14:13,854 --> 01:14:19,918

And he ended up saying, well, his gimmick had a lot of things that he really wanted to put

in there.

:

01:14:19,918 --> 01:14:22,440

And I felt with like Dragon Lee, again, it was like, okay, cool.

:

01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:24,282

Here's who he is, you know who he is.

:

01:14:24,282 --> 01:14:25,168

Here's this.

:

01:14:25,168 --> 01:14:29,962

But with someone like Leo Sparrow, who there was a lot more specificity around where it

was like, all right, cool.

:

01:14:29,962 --> 01:14:32,364

Here are his, here's his ring name.

:

01:14:32,364 --> 01:14:33,925

Here's the fact that he's a vegan.

:

01:14:33,925 --> 01:14:37,448

Here's what some of his move sets are, things like that.

:

01:14:37,448 --> 01:14:38,939

How's that for you going?

:

01:14:38,939 --> 01:14:39,589

Okay, cool.

:

01:14:39,589 --> 01:14:45,253

Here's like a list of things I got to hit as opposed to just being like, you know what,

let me do me.

:

01:14:45,918 --> 01:14:46,695

I don't know.

:

01:14:46,695 --> 01:14:50,918

I feel like I kind of gave you a lot of things and it's a little bit of a different

process, you know?

:

01:14:51,196 --> 01:15:09,136

Those are actually fun for me because they are very challenging in a sense of, okay,

either eight bars or 16 bars, I have to write this and I have to, he wants to make sure,

:

01:15:09,136 --> 01:15:12,916

he or she wants to make sure that all of these points are put in.

:

01:15:12,916 --> 01:15:14,096

Okay, cool.

:

01:15:14,776 --> 01:15:21,136

Let me try to break this down and put this in each line, say something about each point.

:

01:15:22,084 --> 01:15:24,765

each sentence try to make some kind of point.

:

01:15:24,765 --> 01:15:26,466

So that's what I try to do.

:

01:15:26,646 --> 01:15:37,951

And that one was very different from, you know, what our usual work process is, my work

process is, but it's also fun because the more notes that they give me, the better, the

:

01:15:37,951 --> 01:15:39,331

more I have to work with.

:

01:15:39,331 --> 01:15:47,975

And now I can make it easier, canvases actually kind of easier for me in the sense of I

know how I could base the song around.

:

01:15:47,975 --> 01:15:51,616

If this is your character and this is the things you want to do,

:

01:15:51,856 --> 01:15:54,156

You're about, you like money, you like this, you like that.

:

01:15:54,156 --> 01:15:54,837

Okay, cool.

:

01:15:54,837 --> 01:15:57,958

I can make that, I can make that.

:

01:15:57,958 --> 01:15:58,447

You know what I mean?

:

01:15:58,447 --> 01:16:02,639

Instead of just sending me, I just wanna talk about being a champion, I'm the best.

:

01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:05,330

Okay.

:

01:16:05,330 --> 01:16:15,023

It gives me more of a base point and it makes the process of what I wanna write about, you

know what I mean?

:

01:16:15,023 --> 01:16:17,924

Easier for me in that context, you know?

:

01:16:18,322 --> 01:16:24,417

And it's also something where Leo Sparrow has a very specific thing that he's going for.

:

01:16:24,417 --> 01:16:26,259

It's very much about the vegan thing.

:

01:16:26,259 --> 01:16:29,011

He carries lettuce to the ring, all these kinds of stuff.

:

01:16:29,011 --> 01:16:33,715

When you're working on some of these other themes, a lot of the times it's like, yeah,

it's something that means something to them.

:

01:16:33,715 --> 01:16:37,158

But I think a lot of us can relate to, even with Sammy Guevara's theme, right?

:

01:16:37,158 --> 01:16:43,183

A lot of us can relate to being on the come up and wanting our due diligence and wanting

to show people, hey, I'm here.

:

01:16:43,183 --> 01:16:46,802

A lot of people can relate to the themes from Shane Taylor's theme.

:

01:16:46,802 --> 01:16:52,842

And I think with someone like Leo Sparrow, it's a very kind of specific, dare I say,

wrestling type gimmick.

:

01:16:52,842 --> 01:16:53,482

You know what I mean?

:

01:16:53,482 --> 01:16:59,342

Where it's like a little bit more of a character that you're bringing in and adding props

and things like that.

:

01:16:59,342 --> 01:17:02,022

Like we talked about the lettuce in the ring, things like that.

:

01:17:02,022 --> 01:17:04,222

You're naming moves after the fact that you're vegan.

:

01:17:04,222 --> 01:17:10,882

It's all this kind of like even more, I don't want to say more creative than Shane Taylor.

:

01:17:10,882 --> 01:17:11,882

It's just a different way.

:

01:17:11,882 --> 01:17:13,418

It's more of a...

:

01:17:14,938 --> 01:17:16,029

You know what I'm trying to say?

:

01:17:16,029 --> 01:17:26,741

Shane Taylor's more something based in kind of like the Everyman, like the more everyone

relates to this, as opposed to the Leo Sparrow where you're sitting there going, okay,

:

01:17:26,741 --> 01:17:30,926

cool, there's more of a gimmick behind it, more of a character, so to speak, you know?

:

01:17:30,926 --> 01:17:34,770

So I'm sure it's a little bit of a different dynamic for you writing one to the other too.

:

01:17:34,770 --> 01:17:37,071

Yeah.

:

01:17:37,071 --> 01:17:42,245

dynamic and it kind of just It all is circumstantial.

:

01:17:42,245 --> 01:17:44,006

It's all depends on what they're looking for.

:

01:17:44,006 --> 01:17:45,186

Do they know themselves?

:

01:17:45,186 --> 01:17:47,528

Do they know what they want?

:

01:17:47,648 --> 01:17:57,945

You know, normally newer wrestlers don't necessarily have it down to a tee yet as in a

more experienced ones kind of know they know the sound they want they they they've had the

:

01:17:57,945 --> 01:18:00,546

experience as when newer wrestlers they kind of

:

01:18:00,634 --> 01:18:06,476

lets you start from a base point and kind of just know what they kind of kind of artists

they like and you just build around that.

:

01:18:06,476 --> 01:18:12,709

So it's, you know, it's, it's, it comes down to a science.

:

01:18:12,709 --> 01:18:14,760

And I know me and you have done that.

:

01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:25,734

We've, work this to a science where we know, and it's all about building, building your

catalog and being able to be diverse in how you work.

:

01:18:25,734 --> 01:18:29,876

So many people work one certain way and they're not able to

:

01:18:30,076 --> 01:18:34,756

figured out like you said, you had somebody call you 30 minutes before a show, like, yo, I

need something.

:

01:18:34,756 --> 01:18:37,556

So, or you had something where, hey, I need something in a month.

:

01:18:37,556 --> 01:18:40,956

So you, you, you learn to adapt.

:

01:18:40,956 --> 01:18:48,816

think adaptability is the biggest thing that comes with being a musician and being in

theme song making is being adaptable.

:

01:18:48,816 --> 01:18:52,756

It's being adaptable and learning what works.

:

01:18:52,756 --> 01:18:53,756

Okay, you know what?

:

01:18:53,756 --> 01:18:56,616

This might not be my strong suit, but I'm gonna hit up John for this.

:

01:18:56,616 --> 01:19:00,056

John will, will know like, dude,

:

01:19:01,868 --> 01:19:09,191

My favorite work we've done together, dude, was that guitar work you did on that Revo

track, bro.

:

01:19:09,551 --> 01:19:12,612

Bro, bro, that's, I still just listen to that beat.

:

01:19:12,612 --> 01:19:22,957

I don't even listen to the, I don't even listen as much to my words as I listen to what

you and Rich did together to that.

:

01:19:22,957 --> 01:19:29,049

That's one of my favorite, that's one of my favorite songs I've ever made, but just the

music was incredible.

:

01:19:29,049 --> 01:19:31,320

When you sent me that, I said, yo, this dude,

:

01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:35,815

This dude a legend, This dude, this dude's phenomenal.

:

01:19:35,815 --> 01:19:43,544

also, that was also one of those like five, 10 minute things where it's like, man, like I

hear the direction you guys had it and here we are with it, you know?

:

01:19:43,544 --> 01:19:45,055

And sometimes that's just how it happens.

:

01:19:45,055 --> 01:19:49,240

Like you said, sometimes you're sitting there going, you know what?

:

01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:50,782

This is what's going to work.

:

01:19:50,782 --> 01:19:51,833

And that's what you got to do.

:

01:19:51,833 --> 01:19:53,726

Sometimes you got to lean into what's going to work.

:

01:19:53,726 --> 01:19:54,576

So.

:

01:19:55,172 --> 01:19:56,973

Absolutely, absolutely.

:

01:19:56,973 --> 01:19:59,715

gotta lean once again what's gonna work.

:

01:19:59,715 --> 01:20:08,629

You have to lean into what your spirit tells you because if you overthink it, a lot of

times the idea goes away or it's just not gonna sound the way it's supposed to sound.

:

01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:15,043

So you have to just continue to build and just trust your ear.

:

01:20:15,043 --> 01:20:17,344

Trust your ear and you'll never go wrong.

:

01:20:17,724 --> 01:20:18,564

Yeah, absolutely.

:

01:20:18,564 --> 01:20:19,995

that's such an important point.

:

01:20:19,995 --> 01:20:21,496

Like trust your ear.

:

01:20:21,496 --> 01:20:24,038

You can learn everything you can learn.

:

01:20:24,038 --> 01:20:25,448

You can learn all the music theory.

:

01:20:25,448 --> 01:20:26,749

You can learn all the production tips.

:

01:20:26,749 --> 01:20:28,320

You can learn everything.

:

01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,682

But at the end of the day, you need to have that background.

:

01:20:31,682 --> 01:20:36,375

You need to have that stuff in you so that you're not thinking about it when you need it.

:

01:20:36,375 --> 01:20:37,015

You're just doing it.

:

01:20:37,015 --> 01:20:37,805

And you know what?

:

01:20:37,805 --> 01:20:40,107

Sometimes you do something that doesn't match that.

:

01:20:40,107 --> 01:20:40,847

And you know what?

:

01:20:40,847 --> 01:20:41,608

That's okay.

:

01:20:41,608 --> 01:20:43,409

If it works, works.

:

01:20:43,409 --> 01:20:44,249

That's it.

:

01:20:44,249 --> 01:20:45,312

100 % correct.

:

01:20:46,278 --> 01:20:49,680

My dude, it's been awesome being able to have a conversation with you today.

:

01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:57,874

I know you're someone I've wanted to bring on since we started the podcast and it's, you

know, it's just really more of a, let's just get to talk for an hour.

:

01:20:57,874 --> 01:20:59,195

Let's just talk about themes.

:

01:20:59,195 --> 01:20:59,992

Let's talk about wrestling.

:

01:20:59,992 --> 01:21:00,636

Let's talk about life.

:

01:21:00,636 --> 01:21:01,827

Let's talk about all of it.

:

01:21:01,827 --> 01:21:04,588

We need to do this more frequently, both on and off pod.

:

01:21:04,588 --> 01:21:09,951

And you'll be hearing way more from TZ and I over the years, as you know, and hopefully

it's not going to be years.

:

01:21:09,951 --> 01:21:15,090

It'll be, as we just talked about, months, days, you know, all that fun stuff.

:

01:21:15,090 --> 01:21:23,268

because it's always awesome collaborating with you and I'm so grateful for us being able

to work together all these years and just be able to be good friends as we have been.

:

01:21:23,268 --> 01:21:32,795

Absolutely, man, you know, I I I appreciate your hard work for the culture I Give you your

roses and thank you for your friendship.

:

01:21:32,795 --> 01:21:41,961

Once again, you've helped me on a personal level when I've needed you the most So you

forever have my loyalty as a friend whatever you need from me If I could do it any advice

:

01:21:41,961 --> 01:21:52,588

any connects that I can make anything I can do to help you out You know, I definitely will

You know, I believe that you

:

01:21:52,738 --> 01:22:05,594

Already have had a legendary career in this and I believe that it's gonna even grow even

more and for us to stay inspired and push each other and keep each other motivated and

:

01:22:05,594 --> 01:22:17,619

Know what we need to do in order to not only for our own spiritual happiness, but just to

remain you know remain Happy for ourselves within what we're doing and staying and keeping

:

01:22:17,619 --> 01:22:19,698

that blue fire lit and what we're

:

01:22:19,698 --> 01:22:20,586

Absolutely.

:

01:22:21,178 --> 01:22:23,169

I thank you for man, this is a great podcast.

:

01:22:23,169 --> 01:22:30,322

I hope this podcast grows and you get a million street downloads and you, and cause you

deserve it.

:

01:22:30,322 --> 01:22:31,593

You're a good brother, man.

:

01:22:31,593 --> 01:22:35,254

And I've always been rooting for you because you're a good person.

:

01:22:35,254 --> 01:22:38,085

And I just hope that, you know, you continue with this.

:

01:22:38,085 --> 01:22:40,256

Don't stop this podcast, bro.

:

01:22:40,256 --> 01:22:41,857

Just keep cranking them out.

:

01:22:41,857 --> 01:22:43,317

Keep pushing.

:

01:22:43,438 --> 01:22:48,794

I know it's, you know, the algorithm quotation.

:

01:22:48,794 --> 01:22:52,350

And a lot of stuff will try to discourage people from doing that stuff, man.

:

01:22:52,350 --> 01:22:54,754

But keep doing your thing.

:

01:22:54,754 --> 01:22:55,726

Keep doing your thing.

:

01:22:55,726 --> 01:22:58,850

You have my full support, brother, and my phone's always on.

:

01:22:59,184 --> 01:22:59,964

I appreciate you.

:

01:22:59,964 --> 01:23:01,355

We're just rising all ships, man.

:

01:23:01,355 --> 01:23:02,175

We're just doing it.

:

01:23:02,175 --> 01:23:08,017

I got one last question for you, and this one's probably gonna be an easy one, or it might

be a hard one, because some people have said it's a little bit hard.

:

01:23:08,017 --> 01:23:20,241

So, what I'm asking all my guests at the end of every show is if you had to put three

pieces of music on a Spotify playlist to say, this represents Montese, what are those

:

01:23:20,241 --> 01:23:22,032

three songs that you're gonna choose?

:

01:23:25,116 --> 01:23:26,207

Great question.

:

01:23:26,694 --> 01:23:28,173

Might be the hardest question.

:

01:23:30,182 --> 01:23:32,716

Damn this shit is different when you got a big catalog.

:

01:23:32,716 --> 01:23:33,850

Hahaha!

:

01:23:34,556 --> 01:23:39,035

Damn, I ain't been, this is a good one, I ain't been asked this.

:

01:23:41,016 --> 01:23:42,583

Obviously take flight.

:

01:23:46,222 --> 01:23:48,512

It could be wrestling thing, it could be anything.

:

01:23:48,804 --> 01:23:49,625

It could be anything.

:

01:23:49,625 --> 01:23:54,876

could be stuff that you've done or it can be music that over your time, your life has

inspired you.

:

01:23:54,876 --> 01:23:57,711

Oh, so it don't have to be me.

:

01:23:58,180 --> 01:24:00,315

No, no, it doesn't have to be music that you've worked on.

:

01:24:00,315 --> 01:24:02,971

It's what are three songs in your life?

:

01:24:02,971 --> 01:24:03,812

Yeah.

:

01:24:06,202 --> 01:24:08,374

I'm gonna put one of my songs on there.

:

01:24:08,495 --> 01:24:10,737

Saw Right or Wrong with Anthony King.

:

01:24:11,759 --> 01:24:13,581

That will be one I put on there.

:

01:24:13,581 --> 01:24:18,868

That record means a lot to me with life experiences, things that I've been through.

:

01:24:18,868 --> 01:24:22,612

I will put Monty Z featured Anthony King, Right or Wrong.

:

01:24:27,862 --> 01:24:34,868

Nas, Life's a Bee off the Illmatic album.

:

01:24:37,564 --> 01:24:41,454

And I will put...

:

01:24:47,246 --> 01:24:50,144

and Justice for All, the title track from Metallica.

:

01:24:51,410 --> 01:24:52,251

Nice.

:

01:24:52,934 --> 01:24:54,017

All great tracks.

:

01:24:54,017 --> 01:24:57,465

Obviously myself being a Metallica fan, huge Metallica fan.

:

01:24:57,667 --> 01:24:58,820

Couldn't have asked for a third one.

:

01:24:58,820 --> 01:24:59,301

That was better.

:

01:24:59,301 --> 01:25:00,366

Ah, look at that.

:

01:25:00,366 --> 01:25:06,819

Yeah, and by the way, 72 Seasons was a phenomenal album.

:

01:25:06,819 --> 01:25:07,739

I love that album.

:

01:25:07,739 --> 01:25:15,382

A lot of people give Metallica slack because they're just famous and they made it, but

phenomenal.

:

01:25:15,382 --> 01:25:23,265

James, Lars, Kirk, you guys, Rob, you guys are absolutely phenomenal.

:

01:25:23,365 --> 01:25:25,786

I'm going to your show in Tampa in a few months.

:

01:25:25,786 --> 01:25:29,806

I'm going to the day one show with Wimp Biscuit and them.

:

01:25:29,806 --> 01:25:32,309

and I am going to have me a good ass time.

:

01:25:32,309 --> 01:25:37,114

It's gonna be two weeks before my birthday and I'm gonna have some fun.

:

01:25:37,114 --> 01:25:38,576

So that's it.

:

01:25:39,322 --> 01:25:39,642

awesome.

:

01:25:39,642 --> 01:25:42,404

Metallica has been one of the best live shows I've ever gone to.

:

01:25:42,404 --> 01:25:47,767

I think I've seen them either once or twice in my life, but when I've seen them, best

show.

:

01:25:47,767 --> 01:25:49,548

And 72 Seasons was dope.

:

01:25:49,548 --> 01:25:50,598

There's a lot of hate on it.

:

01:25:50,598 --> 01:25:53,880

I think it's because of their early stuff to the new stuff, but dude, great songs.

:

01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:54,810

Yeah.

:

01:25:54,851 --> 01:25:56,092

Keep crushing it.

:

01:25:56,092 --> 01:25:57,232

And you keep crushing it.

:

01:25:57,232 --> 01:25:59,142

As always, you're always crushing it.

:

01:25:59,142 --> 01:26:00,944

Gotta try to be more like you, my friend.

:

01:26:00,944 --> 01:26:01,905

Thank you, my brother.

:

01:26:01,905 --> 01:26:03,586

I appreciate you, man.

:

01:26:05,148 --> 01:26:06,769

give the family my best.

:

01:26:06,769 --> 01:26:10,272

the, know, and we'll be collaborating again soon, my brother.

:

01:26:10,272 --> 01:26:11,203

So thank you.

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About the Podcast

Ropes N Riffs
Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!
About The Host:
John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.
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