Episode 5

Lince Dorado on Building his Lucha Lit Brand, His Entrance Theme, Working with WWE on His Theme, CWC

Published on: 17th December, 2024

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Lince Dorado and John Kiernan delve into the significance of music in wrestling, exploring how themes contribute to character development and audience connection. They discuss the evolution of wrestling music, the disconnect between wrestlers and their themes, and the personal journey of Lince in crafting his unique sound. The dialogue highlights the importance of music in setting the tone for performances and the cultural influences that shape musical tastes.

Lince Dorado and John Kiernan explore the integral role of music in wrestling, discussing how themes can enhance a wrestler's character and presentation. They delve into the creative process behind crafting unique wrestling themes, the importance of personal branding, and the art of gear making. Dorado shares his journey of self-sufficiency in creating his own gear and music, emphasizing the value of professionalism in the wrestling industry. The discussion highlights the significance of music and gear in shaping a wrestler's identity and the impact it has on their performance.

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About The Show:

Do you like wrestling? Do you like music and stories from the road? Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!

About the Host:

John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.

Transcript
Speaker:

one and only, Lince Dorado.

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Because there's only one of you, and there should only be one of you.

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No one can be you and no one should try.

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No one can even come close.

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can be the 2010 AND 2011 Mr.

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Puss in Boots, Luchalet, Ligues Adorados.

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That's right, there's only one.

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There's only one.

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so good to talk to you again, my friend.

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It's been a little bit of a time.

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How's the family?

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How are the kids?

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How's everyone doing?

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My boys are in school.

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My oldest daughter actually just graduated school, so she's no longer attending school

anymore.

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It's kind of weird.

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She's going to do college though in January.

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And then my babies, my twins, they just went down, so they're doing great.

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Everybody's doing great.

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We're blessed, man.

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I can't really complain.

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I did shave, as you guys can see a little bit.

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So they just, I did that like three days ago just to be funny.

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I honestly, I'm not going to lie.

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I just did it to be funny and nobody found it funny.

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except for me.

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I was going to say, do your kids come home sometimes and they're like, hey, you know, what

would happen if we removed the facial hair?

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And you're just like, you don't want to do that, but maybe I will.

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Or is it always a you thing?

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yeah, for a while my sons were like, you should grow goatee, you should grow goatee.

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And I'm like, I don't know, man.

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Like, I don't think I look right with a goatee.

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So I did it randomly.

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Well, one, it was getting like too crazy.

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I wasn't maintaining it.

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I should maintain it, but I wasn't.

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And then I think I just had that like Britney Spears moment.

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like, I'm gonna shave it off.

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But before I do, let me try all these different facial hair, goatee, mustache.

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all of them before I ended up as like, know, let's just shave it all off, we'll grow back,

but start brand new.

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But I'm looking at my camera, dude, I look so weird.

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look like 2005, 2006 when I first started.

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Let's say it's weird.

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I don't know.

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Yeah, it's crazy too.

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And for me, it's the same thing.

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Like I've had the family say, why don't you shave everything at one point?

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And I did.

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And I went down like 20 years, like I looked like a baby.

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And I'm just like, even if I just trim it up, it looks okay.

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I also had hair for years that was like past my elbows when I was performing a lot.

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And you know, we say it's a Britney Spears moment sometimes where it's just like, my God,

you just removed it one day.

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Dude, one day I woke up, it was like a Monday or whatever.

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And I'm like, I wonder what this would look like.

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All right.

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But I remember hopping on the phone with my mom and my wife and they were just like, my

God.

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Then they were asking me like, are you okay?

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Like, is everything okay in your life?

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I'm like, dude, I promise it's fine.

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It's just, it's time for a change, baby.

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That's what it is.

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Yeah, I had to go pick up my son at school the day after I did it and he was not happy.

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And also too, the person at the desk was like, cause he didn't come to me right away.

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He didn't recognize me right away.

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It's been honestly almost like 10 years since I actually shaved it all off, I guess.

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And the lady was like, do you not know this guy?

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And he's like, he's like, yeah, yeah, I do.

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He just looks weird because he doesn't have hair anymore.

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But she almost didn't let him come to me, which I thought was funny, but I was like,

whatever.

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That's awesome.

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Well, we are here on ropes and riffs and we talk to wrestlers.

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talk to musicians.

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And the thing I love to do is talk to you guys, you wrestlers, all you amazing people and

just talk, just talk about wrestling music and specifically talk about wrestling themes

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too.

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Cause there's such an important part of wrestling and I don't think we talk about it

enough.

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We don't think about it enough, but you know, maybe over the last couple of years, it's

gotten a lot more visibility in mainstream and things like that.

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But.

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know why though, because it's been bad.

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The music has been bad.

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So the talk that you've been hearing is and I don't wanna say bad.

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I just don't think like it's not connecting worthy when it comes to the wrestlers and the

fans like there's such a big disconnect.

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In fact, there's a clip from WWE and I'm not just saying WWE, I'm just saying.

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There's a clip of Seth Rollins watching the rumble and somebody's music hits and he's

jamming out for a second But then you could see him say who is this?

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I'm like bro.

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You're in the same company.

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It's not his fault You know, it's not WB's fault It's the people who create the music for

these for this for the wrestlers and it's also too and like I'm not like pooping on the

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wrestlers or shitting on the wrestlers, but it's also hard to write a story or music for a

wrestler who doesn't have a character like

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When we sit down with WWE or somebody, like when we sat down, it was very clear what I

wanted.

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When you sit down with other people, it's like, well, I like this and I like that.

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And I'm like, well, what does this have to do with your character?

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What are you trying to portray?

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I know when we talk and we'll talk about the creation of my theme, I was very specific.

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I had an idea of what I wanted to do with it.

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I had an idea of.

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how it changes the atmosphere in the room, how it changes my mindset for when I go through

the curtain.

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And a lot of people don't do that.

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A lot of people are so gung-ho of like, I like this theme song, or this is popular, or

there's a line in here out of all the other lines that makes sense, but then the rest of

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the song doesn't.

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So there's just a lot of music right now since probably 2010-ish maybe.

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2010, the last 14 years, I guess, have been unoriginal.

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Like I said, there's a really bad disconnect when it comes from that first bar to when the

person comes out where I might have to question who this person is until the bell rings,

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or maybe until the bell rings at the end.

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And then I'm like, okay, I kind of get that.

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But then the music is such a disconnect.

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Yeah.

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think that's what the chatter's coming from.

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There's a lot of chatter, but I don't think it's a lot of good chatter.

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And I'll tell you that one time I had just on LinkedIn, and I've said this story in a

couple of different times before, but I think it speaks here.

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I was able to speak to Jim Johnston through LinkedIn when I had started doing this, right?

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And one thing that I had always heard through, obviously, The Great Vine is, well, you

know, he's the, obviously because I'm a fan, but like Stone Cold's theme is great.

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Undertaker's theme is great.

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Of course.

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And when I started talking to him, I sent him a couple of my themes.

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gave me some feedback.

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And he was like, you know, think about the undertaker, think about those people.

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And my question wasn't so much about those, because when you think about the undertaker as

a character, the whole presentation is there, you know, so you can really fit something a

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little bit more eerie and a little bit more like funeral dirge to him.

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But for me, it was less like, okay, cool.

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What do you do for him?

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Makes sense.

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But what do you do for somebody who in the world of professional wrestling in the world of

like combat fighting is

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for lack of a better term, just a wrestler, right?

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Or that's the portrayal.

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And I remember that he told me at one point, he goes, everybody is unique and everybody

has a story.

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He goes, you have to find that story because that's what makes the people unique.

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And, you know, I would bring up like a Daniel Bryan.

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was like, what do you think Bryan Danielson obviously in AEW as of this recording, but how

do you do someone like that?

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He's just a great wrestler.

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How do you do someone like a Steve Blackman is, you know, some of the people I was going

to.

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And I remember when he said that it struck such a chord because you have to understand who

you're working with.

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And even when I've talked to you and others, I always ask people, what's the thing that

you want people to know about you before you hit the ring?

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Cause that's important.

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You should hear the song and you should know, at least get a vibe for who's coming out.

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Totally.

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like one of my theme songs, I used to use Megadeth's Duke Nukem theme song, but before it

I would put in the Meow Meow remix, the Meow Mix remix where it'd be like meow meow meow

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meow, and then it would jump into the thing.

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And I just remembered when I first started in 2005, 2006, El Generico had the ole, ole,

ole, ole, ole, ole, then it went into his song.

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And I remember Gabe Sapolsky was like the only guy on the Indies right now that has a

theme song because they know who's gonna come out, they know who it is, is El Generico

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because of the way that it fit his character.

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So I wanted to replicate that with all my music moving forward.

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So it started with the Meow Mix and to the Duke Nukem.

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And then it always had like either my voice or a tagline because again, for me as a

luchador, it's important for people to understand like my face, my eyes.

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but also to understand my voice.

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So, you know, at any moment that I'm allowed to talk or do a promo or play my music where

they can hear my voice, like they know like, that's Lin-Said Dorado.

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Because we don't have that luxury anymore of having those sweet entrance videos of showing

the character, the moveset, you know, before the entrance.

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We don't have that anymore.

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So we have to create like this atmosphere, this captivating image of persona and aura.

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that we have in the 30 seconds that we have to get from the curtain to the ring.

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And with the music, with the presentation of the gear and the swagger, like, you know, the

confidence, it all comes as the total package.

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But going back to what you were saying, like, if you're just a wrestler, like, what are

you gonna do?

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Your music hits, you just walk to the ring.

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You don't have any, you know, moment or a cue in your music that...

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know, the beat drops or something, like we're like, okay, now I'm coming to be, you know,

this good guy.

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Now I'm going to become an ass kicker.

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There's no, there's no transition in that.

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And it's just music right now.

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Like I, there's a, there's some music out there right now that I'm like, that's pretty

good.

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20 years from now, 30 years from now, nobody will care.

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But we're still talking about all the music from like the nineties attitude era, even like

the crappy WCW rip offs.

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Like some people are still, they're banging, they're bangers when it comes to

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know, theme songs.

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But yeah, they're just like, it is hard when you're just a wrestler.

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It's hard for the writer and it's hard for the composer just to create something for the

wrestlers because you're really doing an injustice, you know, for they're doing an

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injustice to themselves.

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And like, you're just kind of going with the flow, just creating this something, you know,

this music just to like make them happy.

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But at the end of the day, is it really contributing to

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their overall aesthetic as a professional, most likely not.

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And I remember that when you and I started working on Lucha Lit, you and I were talking a

lot about like who you saw yourself as.

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And one of the things I always appreciated when we wrote that theme was you have this idea

of who you are and who your character is, and it's very defined.

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But one thing that you had always said, and one thing that you made very clear was your

in-ring is very different than a lot of luchadors.

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You know, there's a lot of high flying that goes on in

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that Lucha Libre style.

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And for you, you can obviously do all those things.

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But one thing that you had always focused on, at least from when you talked to me, was,

you know, I have more of that grappling background and it's a little bit more on the

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floor.

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It's a little bit rougher and a little bit more rugged.

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And obviously if you look up any Linsey DeVarado videos or you see any matches, you see

all of the things that Linsey can do.

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But I think it was really important in that moment for me to hear, okay, cool.

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Like a lot of Luchadors may go in this direction, but for me,

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I really want to highlight these parts of my personality because that does differentiate

you when you're coming to the ring, when you're in ring and it really amplifies who you

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are, whether you're being more of like a brutal type or anything like that.

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So that was such a good call out that you brought up like, Hey, my style is very different

intentionally than other luchadores in the space.

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the music needs to reflect that.

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Yeah, for me personally, like again, I can do all the styles if I really wanted to.

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Japanese, neutral, very British.

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My background growing up has always been amateur Olympic wrestling.

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I just, there's something about hand to hand grappling or combat that, you know, it's a

one-on-one sports.

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The only one-on-one sport that really means something.

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And I wanted to definitely translate that in wrestling because I wanted to bring the

authenticness of being real, being

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angry, being aggressive, you know, in the ring rather than like just look like it's a

choreographed exhibition of professional wrestling moves.

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Like to me, that's, I don't do professional wrestling matches.

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You know, I do storytelling.

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So I wanted to make sure that whatever my music was relayed that like, you know, you're

not just getting, for example, here's, we're going to get into it now.

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WWE, right?

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205.

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I, they asked me what music I wanted and I gave them,

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Originally, I said, hey, this is the music I've had the mega deaf theme song.

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Do you have something similar to this?

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So the first round of the CWC, they gave me a song that was like, I was all right.

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It wasn't the best, but it wasn't like ultra lucha.

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So was like, I could I could work with this for right now.

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We'll change it when I get to the main roster or whatever.

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But the same round, three matches later, they gave the same song to Tony Nese.

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So when we came to the second round, I go, hey.

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Can you play my theme song and then play Tony Nises?

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It's the same theme song and you're about to put this out right now.

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And then sure enough, it was the same theme song.

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So I'd said to Tony, said, why don't you keep this one?

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Let me see if they can find something closer as we're getting closer.

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So I'm talking to the dude.

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I'm like, hey, listen, I don't want anything like you gave super crazy.

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I don't want any Mexicools.

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In fact, I'm not Mexican.

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It's no offense to Mexicans.

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I'm not Mexican.

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We don't need that.

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not even offensive though.

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It's like, hey, that doesn't represent my background.

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they ended up giving me something that was I.

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wasn't like, it ended up being like a super crazy-esque like thing.

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And I'm just like, this isn't me.

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And it made me want to run to the ring.

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Like I didn't even want to like stand there and like have this music play.

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So then, you know, once we got to the main roster, I actually, I think that song was

called Gold Rush.

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And then,

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And real quick, let me, let me pause you for a sec before you go through, cause you

brought up Tony Nese.

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And when he had originally gone, you know, to the Indies and then to AEW, the first theme

that he had used there was one that I had put together for him.

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And he had a similar story with that.

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goes, yeah, the theme that he really had given to WWE or like the reference track was

something by a band called Atreyu.

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And if you listen to the premier athlete, which was a theme I had worked on with him.

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It's very much in line with what he had given WWE and that was my reference for it.

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but I remember he was just like, yeah, I gave that to them.

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And then they gave me something that was completely in a, like a different tempo and same

thing.

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He was just like, it made me want to feel like I had to run to the ring.

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was like, it was in the same key, but like in terms of like my pacing, felt a little bit

different.

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I'm sorry to cut you off, but you mentioned Tony Deese.

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And so I know exactly the theme you're talking about.

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Yeah.

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frustrating because like we're being very specific and these people are getting paid a lot

of money to create something and they're just like, we'll just find something or just

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create something quick.

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Was this a theme that was made for you or was it something where they had like a library

and they were like, all right, cool.

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Got it.

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they just like recycled it.

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then later on we ended up adopting the Lucha Lucha song from Kalisto, which kind of made

sense because we were the group.

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That was my idea, but it didn't translate to what I wanted to do.

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So then when Kalisto left, the very first thing that we said was like, hey, we don't want

the Lucha Lucha.

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Like we want our own theme.

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had a, dude, I had in Premiere Pro and After Effects made this like.

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awesome entrance that I gave to them.

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said, this is exactly what we need to be.

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Like, you know, I just need you guys to create the theme song similar to this and nothing.

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Like they did it, but then like it was not what we wanted.

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And it was like another thing.

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Like I just felt like I had to run to the ring and I was just like not happy about it.

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I kept telling them, like, yo, we bring the energy, but we don't need to be energy the

whole time.

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Like it's, it's cool to like, you know,

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If we bring the energy, we never are able to have a switch.

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But if we're in there, like, cool, calm, collect it, and then somebody grabs our mouse or

whatever, now we're able to get mad.

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But how can I get mad if I'm just so jolly all the time?

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It doesn't work that way in the real life.

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So that's when, once I left, I asked for my release.

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And once I left, that first song, dude, by Nekro, Head Split, it just hit me so hard

because

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One, was like, that's how I felt all the time.

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Not that I'm an angry person, but I don't want problems, but I don't mind problems either.

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I don't look for them.

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But some reason they look for me and I'm like, all right, well, I guess we got to do what

we got to do.

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It makes me, you And that song just put me in the temple where I'm just walking and I'm

just like, okay, I'm vibing for this.

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I'm head bopping, like boom, boom.

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And it was like something about that bass and that piano.

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I love the piano and the violin.

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I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it.

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I love it.

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I just like the way it sounds.

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It sounds hard but elegant at the same time.

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And I was like, I'm hard and elegant at the same time.

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Like that's me.

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But obviously, you know, knowing me being a businessman, I was like, well, if I get to go

and do these...

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Shows outside of WWE who have like TV or copyright.

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They're most likely not gonna play my entrance now I want to make sure that my entrance

gets played I want to make sure that everybody can use my music whether it's TNA or or AEW

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at which I did right and You know, I was it super important for me that that was the theme

and Going back to what we were saying like yeah, I don't Russell

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like everybody else in the Lucha Libre community.

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So that also means I should come out different.

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And the music is very different.

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A lot of people, like, I always tell people that I'm like the Pink Panther and the most

interesting man in Lucha Libre.

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So there's a lot to be desired.

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There's a lot to be uncovered.

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There's a lot that you know, but there's a lot that you don't know that now you're so

captivated that you have to watch.

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And I love when my music hits and you hear the cough and like Lucha lit.

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And

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Yeah.

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is the most important part of my match, because it's my shine.

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I want to make sure that I look like a superstar.

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So I get the cameraman, and I make sure that they get all these angles that I want.

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And then get with the announcer, because there's a whole script that I have them read to

introduce me before I even get in the ring.

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So that

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with Miranda one time, like literally you were walking out, you were doing all the poses

and she was just walking in step right behind you to saying this thing.

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they get it, they love it, they get the pageantry that comes with it, you know?

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:

And it's supposed to be fun, and you look at this character coming out in a cat mask and a

robe, you're like, that's a cool dude.

299

:

And then you see him in the ring, you take his robe off, like, that guy kind of looks

legit.

300

:

And then the way that I move and strike, people are like, I don't know if this guy is

actually wrestling, he might be fighting this dude, which is a great compliment, you know?

301

:

Because they think whatever we're doing in the ring.

302

:

is legit, mean, you know, it is legit, but like, now it looks like I have intentions to

hurt, which I don't.

303

:

But my music, man, like really puts, I always said it to people when you watch any other

interview, I said, my music puts me in the right state of mind.

304

:

I know what bar to go out to.

305

:

I'm not in a rush.

306

:

I always tell people now, like, don't rush me.

307

:

You I even came to you, I said, hey bro, I need it longer.

308

:

I need you to double it, like a minute and 24 or whatever it was, it's like not cutting

it.

309

:

I said, by the time they,

310

:

get through the first part of my intro that, you know, we're recycling it.

311

:

So that's why I had, you know, four minutes and like 34 seconds that I'm okay taking that

time away from my match for the people to see my entrance, hear the music vibe out.

312

:

Because again, I'm not bringing a pro wrestling experience to, you know, any show.

313

:

I'm bringing the Lucha Lit experience to the show.

314

:

it's an act that you're gonna...

315

:

and it starts with the music, you know?

316

:

And it's important because you're seeing yourself as the overall product, you're seeing

yourself as the brand and everything that you do from the time that the music hits to you

317

:

getting back out of the ring.

318

:

All of that is all part of your presentation.

319

:

And the fact that there's one part that you and I had gotten back and forth with a bunch

of times and it was that intro, it was that cough.

320

:

And I remember I had told you, was like, so, you know, since you're doing TV, I don't know

if it's something that you should have in there.

321

:

Hmm.

322

:

something that we can have two versions, one with, one without.

323

:

And the message I think literally says the cough is staying.

324

:

I'm like, all right, cool.

325

:

yeah.

326

:

that I ever got was from TNA and it wasn't even an issue of the cough.

327

:

They were just worried about, because I had gave them the intro.

328

:

I gave Dave Penser the intro.

329

:

said, hey, I just want you to say 2010 and 2011, Mr.

330

:

Puss in Boots.

331

:

And he looked at me and walked away for like two hours and he was like, hey, man, I didn't

see anything about no Puss in Boots.

332

:

I can't find anything on the internet.

333

:

I'm like, no, it's a fake up, fucking made up thing, man.

334

:

Come on.

335

:

But when it came to the cough,

336

:

The only issue was that we were running out of time when it came to the match.

337

:

So they were like, where can we save time at?

338

:

And I said, you know what?

339

:

Just take the cough out and just make sure that my music is like, like I actually have

some music, like my music.

340

:

Don't give me no generic, I won't come out.

341

:

I told them straight up, said, I won't come out.

342

:

I won't like thank you for your money, but I won't come out.

343

:

Like I'm okay.

344

:

Like I'm not a mark for money.

345

:

I'm not a mark for like matches.

346

:

I'm a mark for my brand.

347

:

Like you said earlier, like I want to make sure that my brand is always represented

correctly and you know, right.

348

:

And so far, I mean like A.W.

349

:

and TNA has hooked it up to like honoring, having my music on the program, which is great.

350

:

But I never really ever had any other issues.

351

:

know, nobody ever said anything.

352

:

But like I said, if

353

:

TNA and AEW were able to use it without any issues.

354

:

Everybody else should be able to.

355

:

Yeah.

356

:

And I remember on Twitter, someone had mentioned it.

357

:

Someone was just like, that cough is gold.

358

:

And they tagged Mikey, Mikey Ruckus over at AEW.

359

:

goes, that was John.

360

:

And I literally posted, I was just like, yeah, Lince and I went back and forth in that for

a while.

361

:

And you know, it's just, it's the best to see it.

362

:

And you were just like, I know who I am,

363

:

Yeah, I'm very stubborn, man.

364

:

I'm very stubborn.

365

:

know I can be like, I just know what I want and I'd rather go down on my own shield, you

know, like on my back and with my shield rather.

366

:

Like if it sucked, I'd rather it be my fault than your fault or somebody else's fault.

367

:

I'd know that my idea works or is working rather than like, because I've taken so much

advice, good and bad from

368

:

people who've made a lot of money and people who've made no money.

369

:

And at the end of the day, I'm the only one that's gonna back myself.

370

:

I'm the only one that's gonna be there and be like, hey, that was a good idea or hey, that

was a bad idea.

371

:

Because at the end of the day, like I said, I'm the only one that I respect my opinion.

372

:

I do respect everybody else's opinion, but I wouldn't put people in certain situations or

places in my life if I didn't respect their opinion.

373

:

But sometimes I just have to go with my gut feeling and...

374

:

I think that gut feeling was like, God, keep it.

375

:

It's my El Generico, meow, meow, meow mix.

376

:

Ole, ole, like it's my, it's the hook, you know?

377

:

yeah.

378

:

And it sets the tone and everything too.

379

:

And like you said, with entrance music, it's that's what it's supposed to do.

380

:

It's supposed to set the tone for who you are.

381

:

And you mentioned something that I want to bring up again here.

382

:

You had mentioned that when you hear your music, it puts you in a mind frame, it puts you

in a state of mind.

383

:

So it's not even just about your brand.

384

:

It's also what it does for you.

385

:

And that's something that before you even go out the curtain, we talk about what we want

the people to see.

386

:

But another important part of it is what does it do to you?

387

:

And when you think about

388

:

Golden Rush and you think about the you think about Lucha lit and you think about all

these themes that you've had How do these themes affect you backstage or in gorilla before

389

:

you even go to the ring?

390

:

Yeah, well, all the songs that I've had before Lucha Lit, I honestly felt no different

from when I was talking about the match to when I went out.

391

:

I always felt like I was in the motions mode.

392

:

Like the music never changed me and never put me in the right state of mind, like I like

to say.

393

:

And then it was because it wasn't me, you know, it wasn't my music.

394

:

It wasn't the one that got me to the level.

395

:

in the right state of mind that I need to be to wrestle.

396

:

Like sometimes in wrestling you need to be relaxed, but sometimes you need to be

aggressive.

397

:

like I'm naturally an aggressive person.

398

:

I'm very calm, like I'm down.

399

:

You know what saying?

400

:

I'm down, always down.

401

:

Like say the word, I'm down.

402

:

Like I look forward to it, but that music never got me to that point.

403

:

That music got me to like, hey, I'm happy to be here.

404

:

And I'm like, am I really happy to be here?

405

:

Like I am happy to be here, but like I'm...

406

:

I wanna be here for long time and that wasn't gonna get me there.

407

:

And then when I heard the original theme song that we changed by Necro, that got me to the

point where I wanted to kill somebody in a good way, like in a wrestling way.

408

:

wanted, yeah, right?

409

:

I wanted to bring that aggressiveness out so that way, one, I wasn't worried about what I

was doing, but two, I wanted to look like an ass kicker.

410

:

I wanted to look like an ass kicker.

411

:

I actually used that same song by Necro at all my jujitsu contests to listen before I went

out and it wasn't like, I'm gonna go out there and kill this guy, but I'm gonna go out

412

:

there and not get killed.

413

:

So there's a mindset to that level of primal instinct of just being there, man.

414

:

Just being there and ready.

415

:

And that song literally, that song gets me to the mindset of like,

416

:

I'm now treating this no longer as a professional wrestling match, but as a fight.

417

:

And that's what I feel like we've gotten away with in wrestling is like making it real,

making it look real, making it look like somebody's in jeopardy.

418

:

like, I don't sell motion, you know, I sell emotion.

419

:

At the end of the day, that's, it starts with the entrance and the theme song.

420

:

So got me in the right state of mind.

421

:

Now for you with that Necro song, is that music that even outside of wrestling inspires

you and kind of gets you going?

422

:

Because like you said, I think that a lot of people think of the music that they love and

they start there as opposed to just thinking of the character side.

423

:

But let's kind of take it into a different direction in terms of just music that you grew

up with, music that you love and music that kind of gets you going.

424

:

What are some of those artists that you always go to and what are some of the musicians

that you listen to?

425

:

And you're just like, you know what?

426

:

That's it.

427

:

They get me and this is totally about me.

428

:

I'm not gonna lie, I'm like culturally illiterate when it comes to music.

429

:

I grew up in Camden right outside Philadelphia.

430

:

So a lot of the music that I heard besides like, know, WWE, WCW, when I went to ECW when I

was younger and I heard now I know like Pantera and all these other guys, I thought those

431

:

were wrestling theme songs.

432

:

Never like, let me look this up.

433

:

Cause remember too, the internet wasn't crazy back then.

434

:

You had to download it illegally if you were trying to listen to music.

435

:

YouTube wasn't around, Apple music wasn't around.

436

:

So a lot of these songs I legit thought were theme songs from wrestling, and then Guitar

Hero and Rock Band came out.

437

:

And that was like what, early 2000s or some shit like that.

438

:

And when I realized, I was like, wait.

439

:

That's not Tommy Dreamer's thing, it?

440

:

And they're like, yeah, it's Tommy Dreamer, but it's an actual band that plays them.

441

:

Because growing up, again, I'm Puerto Rican, so growing up, not only, I listened to lot of

rap, because I'm from the hood, and then lot of salsa reggaeton, a lot of Latino music.

442

:

So I wasn't introduced to a lot of the culture until very late in my life.

443

:

I'm talking high school, college, super late.

444

:

Some of those music, man, like I said, I could have sworn they were wrestling theme songs.

445

:

So now going back, I actually never heard of Necro until I left WWE.

446

:

Like I'm sure I've heard a song or whatever, but it never was on my playlist until I

started like going down this rabbit hole of like songs that I was like, man, need to find

447

:

a head bumping song.

448

:

I need to find a new song at the gym.

449

:

I need like something new.

450

:

And that song popped up and then all of these other things started popping up.

451

:

I was just like, my gosh, like what?

452

:

How am I so culturally literate being in my 30s?

453

:

Well, it's because I'm obsessed with wrestling and I'm obsessed with my family.

454

:

I'm obsessed with so many other things I don't really sit down and enjoy just sitting

there like, that's a good song, you know what saying?

455

:

But now, I guess it really just depends on my mood.

456

:

Whatever frequency I'm running that day depends on what I'm doing, whether I'm making gear

or if I'm gonna go work out.

457

:

or go run errands, it really just depends.

458

:

I don't mind, I like all music.

459

:

I like black, white, country, I like everything.

460

:

I'm not gonna sit here and say, this song is better than the other, because every song is

different and every genre is different, every genre, and every song was written for a

461

:

different purpose.

462

:

You just have to enjoy it, just like wrestling.

463

:

You just have to enjoy it, whatever's there.

464

:

So right now on my playlist, you'll get stuff from the 70s, the 80s.

465

:

all the way to the 90s.

466

:

I don't really have a lot of like 2000 songs that I listen to now.

467

:

Most of the stuff that I'd be listening to is more back in the day, I guess.

468

:

But now I just like also to just try to be more positive, like listen to songs I like

uplifting and like move me.

469

:

Because I know the slower the song, the less I'm going to want to move.

470

:

know that for sure.

471

:

Yeah.

472

:

And it's so true too, though, like the different things that you do in a day or the

different, the different bodies you represent in a day, right?

473

:

They're all going to have different things that you do.

474

:

If you're just in the mode of it, you gotta have something that keeps you going.

475

:

It's funny though that you talked about Pantera because obviously we all know Rob Van

Dam's theme was Pantera in ECW.

476

:

And, you know, it's funny to me because when I started getting into doing the wrestling

themes, excuse me, when I had gotten into doing the wrestling themes, it became a whole

477

:

thing of like,

478

:

Wow, there's all of this music that people love and it's like, where do we even start?

479

:

And for me, I come from a background of just listening to lots of music, but for me,

mostly is like heavy metal, hard rock, those kinds of things.

480

:

And so for me, starting to figure out different styles and, know, even have something like

Necro, it's like, all right, cool.

481

:

Can I do that?

482

:

Yeah.

483

:

But like, I don't want to just do something that's a rip.

484

:

want to do something that's really in the vein, really in the style.

485

:

And, but if I'm in the studio.

486

:

I'm listening to references doing that.

487

:

I'm just driving and I'm trying to figure out, okay, cool.

488

:

I'm going to pick up my son or whatever.

489

:

And it's like 10 minutes.

490

:

I'll put on probably some heavier stuff or whatnot, just something there.

491

:

If I'm working, it's all lo-fi.

492

:

it's like, it's like you said, depending on what you're doing in the day and being a dad

too, that's when like those like real emotional country songs start hitting you.

493

:

The ones where they're just like, Hey, they're riding a bike and then they're out the door

and you're just like, damn it.

494

:

Come back!

495

:

I tell my kids, like I said, my daughter just turned 18.

496

:

I said, you can live here forever.

497

:

You I don't really care.

498

:

And then, but I know she's already at that point where she likes to go out and do this.

499

:

I'm like, I can't say no anymore, I guess, right?

500

:

Make sure your room is clean, damn it.

501

:

But yeah, that's, it's music right now for me at least has definitely, cause I know I like

talk a lot in my head to myself.

502

:

So like a lot of times I need distraction from having a conversation with myself.

503

:

So I'll put on some music.

504

:

But honestly too, I like having some songs that don't have words.

505

:

Like there's a lot of, like Bruce Faulkner, I think that's his name.

506

:

He does a lot of the Dragon Ball Z music, but he's got an album where I felt like every

song did not have words, but every song told a story.

507

:

And I'm just like, God dang.

508

:

Like, yeah, it just, it just like hit hard.

509

:

And I was like, I like that.

510

:

And

511

:

I like reggae.

512

:

I do like reggae.

513

:

I like just mellowing out.

514

:

Like I said, I feel as if I'm a very high strung, I'm very like go, go, go, especially in

my head.

515

:

So anything that can calm me, me at a lower frequency just for a little bit, because I

definitely function at a very high frequency.

516

:

And when I crash, man, I crash.

517

:

Yup.

518

:

You're basically just like days over couch.

519

:

That's it.

520

:

Totally.

521

:

I'm, I'm the same.

522

:

Yeah.

523

:

And I think that kind of tying it back into the themes and stuff too, I get a lot of

wrestlers asking me for lyrics, which is great.

524

:

I can do them.

525

:

I bring in vocalists.

526

:

Sometimes I do the words on my own too, but I always ask them, go, when you have lyrics in

your song, you have to understand that now that we're in this age where everything is

527

:

streaming and there's more announcers and

528

:

The announcers do a great job nowadays in every promotion of putting you guys over.

529

:

I think that sometimes the lyrics get in the way because then what's happening is for the

people in attendance, you can go ahead and you can have them hopefully understand the

530

:

lyrics through the speakers and what's going on.

531

:

But a lot of the times lyrics can get in the way of what the announcers are trying to do.

532

:

have these two voices talking back at the same time and it kind of speaks to what you're

talking about is

533

:

Sometimes you don't need vocals.

534

:

You don't need lyrics in order to get the message across.

535

:

You can have these awesome songs that are instrumental and still sell the narrative that

you're trying to, or put you in that mood that you got to.

536

:

Like even with your, with your theme right now, we don't have lyrics outside of like the

intro words that you have, even in the redone version, which you've started using recently

537

:

too.

538

:

Yeah, I think,

539

:

Talk to you.

540

:

Yeah, I think sometimes too, having lyrics in your theme song, you're compensating for

something else.

541

:

You're almost not confident in your character or your presentation isn't as well thought

out that you're trying to use lyrics to enhance when it's actually, yeah, like you said,

542

:

more confusing because if I have to sit in the audience and I have 30 seconds to think,

who are you?

543

:

What are you about?

544

:

Are you a good guy or bad guy?

545

:

And I'm listening to theme, like some lyrics that don't match it, then you're confusing

the audience.

546

:

know, you're very, very much like confusing the audience to now makes your matches harder

for them to digest because then now they're not only having to watch, but like think about

547

:

how your music related to you and how the lyrics, it's just a lot of distractions when it

comes to what you're actually trying to portray, which is enhancing.

548

:

your overall aura of your presentation when you come out.

549

:

And I know I had some people ask me, like, you should dub over.

550

:

Because I actually had somebody else made me a theme song before you.

551

:

And I gave them the same Cliff Notes.

552

:

And when I got back the first draft, it was not anywhere near I wanted.

553

:

And I said, hey, bro, do you think you can find a beat like this?

554

:

And he was like, no.

555

:

And I was like, all right, well.

556

:

I'm gonna pull the trigger on I'm gonna pull the plug on this because I'm not going to pay

for something that I Not happy with like it's not what I want like you said that you could

557

:

do this for me And when I'm getting this lyric back doesn't fit me and then in fact and

not only him but like a lot of other guys that I was trying to go to a lot of their stuff

558

:

always sounded the same from one person to the other and I'm like, you know what?

559

:

need somebody who can start from scratch scratch and who can actually take the notes that

I have

560

:

and create them, because that's what I'm paying for.

561

:

I hate that I pay people things.

562

:

For example, when I make gear for me, it's great.

563

:

But when I ask somebody else to make it, because I'm in a rush or whatever, it's always

bad.

564

:

It's always bad.

565

:

And it's not even kind of good.

566

:

It's always bad.

567

:

I'm so disappointed in myself.

568

:

I'm like, bro, I just gave you these specific points for a specific reason.

569

:

I don't need you to put your spin on it.

570

:

Now, in our case, you didn't.

571

:

You did exactly what I asked.

572

:

And there was even a mess up in the key or the tone or something.

573

:

And I was like, hey, I think I like it.

574

:

I think we should keep that.

575

:

And you're like, are you sure?

576

:

I'm like, yeah, keep that.

577

:

think stuff like that, like happy mistakes are great.

578

:

But when it's something so different, like for example too, I used to have a guy make my

mask and I was like, do not change anything.

579

:

Don't change the size, don't change the template.

580

:

Everything has to be the exact same.

581

:

Every mask was different.

582

:

So I fired him and I was like, you know what?

583

:

I'm gonna make my mask.

584

:

And I did that.

585

:

Or they would like change,

586

:

one little thing and I put their flavor on it.

587

:

My bro, this isn't, you know, Jenny Craig.

588

:

you got to, this is my food.

589

:

that, you know what saying?

590

:

So same thing with the music.

591

:

Like, like I said, when it came to you, it was super easy.

592

:

You know, I think we, knocked it out.

593

:

I think within a week-ish, if not like after like two or three drafts.

594

:

And I think most of that, I think the first thing that you sent me was like a hit.

595

:

And I was just like, can we just.

596

:

I just want this to be louder.

597

:

I think it was either the bass or the piano.

598

:

Like I said, I wanted to make sure that people heard.

599

:

Because I don't really hear a lot of that in music today.

600

:

So that was already going to help me stand out.

601

:

And then I think when we gave the, I think that was like a little bit loud, but in a good

way for me.

602

:

I like, I think I like that.

603

:

And that was our keep.

604

:

So our process was super easy.

605

:

I was super happy with it.

606

:

Literally that same week, I ended up using it.

607

:

A couple months later, I was like, man, I need a slower version.

608

:

It was already slow.

609

:

I was like, I need a slower and more darker.

610

:

Because I knew eventually I was gonna turn a bad guy in a couple places and I didn't wanna

have the same theme, but I wanted to have the same theme.

611

:

So I wanted people to have that familiarity, but at the same time, they get it when they

see it.

612

:

Yeah, that guy's a lucha guy, but this music tells me that he's a little bit rough and

rugged and maybe a little bit bad.

613

:

I'm all about it though, so.

614

:

Totally.

615

:

And I mean, the thing is there's so many tie-ins that if you listen to the new version and

the original version that we did, there's a lot of tie-ins, a lot of it is similar, but in

616

:

the darker version, there's a couple of like little additional things.

617

:

If you listen to them, you'll pick them out.

618

:

But it's funny too that you mentioned that because for me, I've always considered myself a

composer.

619

:

And I think that there is a bit of a difference sometimes between someone being a producer

and being a composer.

620

:

And

621

:

Nowadays there is a little bit of kind of crossover depending on that.

622

:

But you know, I've always looked at someone like a Mikey Ruckus or a Jim Johnston and been

like, these guys get it.

623

:

These guys really understand that it's not just about making a beat.

624

:

It's about coming up with something completely original.

625

:

And that's not to put anybody down at all.

626

:

It's just when you're in this line of work, you got to think of each wrestler as a movie

or as a TV show.

627

:

And you got to think of.

628

:

how to score that piece of it.

629

:

And I remember that, like you said, there were some of those happy accidents that we

walked into.

630

:

And as a composer and someone in music, you tend to get to those points where you could

overdo something.

631

:

And one thing that I've always tried to do is try to be a little bit simpler upfront.

632

:

Cause taking a theme like yours, there are so many things, so many layers, so many extra

guitar things, so many extra sounds that we could add.

633

:

But the thing is, does it add to the music?

634

:

Or is it just kind of like, okay, cool, because it's in this key, I could do this or we

could do this or we can do this.

635

:

I think, you know, when you really think about what serves the talent and what serves the

music.

636

:

Those are your answers right there.

637

:

Music should always be the vehicle for what you're looking to do.

638

:

But for you guys, the wrestler and the story has to be exactly where that goes.

639

:

And, you know, you had mentioned also about your gear.

640

:

You're just generally a creative person.

641

:

Like you do.

642

:

gear for other people, you do your own gear, you do your logos.

643

:

You bring in other people to do things, but do you feel that you became even more creative

and more self-creative through necessity?

644

:

Or were you always just someone that was like, okay, cool, I can have all these skills, I

can do them, so I'll just do them on my own and source it out when I need to?

645

:

First of all, shout out to my boy Eddie Pozos.

646

:

That's one of my business partners.

647

:

actually, during COVID, this dude helped me get into Adobe, get into Premiere Pro,

literally stepped my game up when it came to my graphic design and stuff like that.

648

:

Because I've always been, since 2006, my first set of gear ever was given to me.

649

:

I had to pay for it, but it was given to me.

650

:

And then the second set, I had to go out and find it.

651

:

And at that time I was 16, 17 and somebody was trying to charge me like 700 bucks.

652

:

And I was like, bro, I'm from the hood.

653

:

I ain't got 700 bucks.

654

:

So I took 500 of that and I bought a sewing machine and some fabric and I made my own

gear.

655

:

Was it great?

656

:

No, but I was able to do it.

657

:

And ever since that moment, I was like, you know what?

658

:

I can make my own shirts.

659

:

I can make my own this and that.

660

:

And I've always been super creative and independent when it came to that.

661

:

Because at the end of the day, and we talked about this before too,

662

:

I could outsource it to other people, but it's always, always a disappointment.

663

:

So instead of being disappointed and saving or spending money, I would rather learn this

skill and do it myself 100%.

664

:

Whenever I want, I don't have to worry about somebody else's time.

665

:

I don't have to worry about if they're gonna do it right.

666

:

I know it's gonna be done right because I'm gonna do it.

667

:

I would trust, there's a very small group of creative content creators that I would.

668

:

trust to like, hey man, I need this in a day.

669

:

Like, could we, you know, help me out or like, you know, do something with me.

670

:

And very few people that I would trust to do that.

671

:

But now for the most part, yeah, I make my own mass.

672

:

make everything is very much in-house.

673

:

I would have done the music if I could play an instrument, I, that's the only, that and

basketball are the only two things in my life that I've tried and I suck at, dude.

674

:

I'm just like.

675

:

either.

676

:

My wife kicks my ass every time when it comes to basketball.

677

:

but I can't shoot because I can't see more than five feet in front of me.

678

:

So it's like I'm a little shorter than most basketball players.

679

:

So I'm going to get blocked every time.

680

:

It's not fun.

681

:

then instruments, I'm just like not I don't have the right ear for it.

682

:

Like I I love the music that comes out.

683

:

I just cannot play it.

684

:

I just don't understand how they baffles me.

685

:

Since elementary school, I've been trying and could not play an instrument to save my

life.

686

:

I envy.

687

:

all my kids or anybody who plays an instrument.

688

:

But I've been very, okay, so I played, I picked up a ukulele for a little bit when I was a

teacher, because one of my coworkers, he's from the island too, but and he loves playing

689

:

the ukulele.

690

:

And I was like, man, how hard can it be?

691

:

Actually it's hard dog.

692

:

I can play like maybe one song, but it's not good.

693

:

I just don't have, like I said, the ear for it, or I see and hear the final piece already.

694

:

And I'm just like, how do I, I can't produce that for some reason.

695

:

So I get frustrated and I,

696

:

just like I'd rather not get frustrated.

697

:

But yeah, I'm very much very independent right now when it comes to my gear, even my

clothing, shoes I've made.

698

:

I make my own sneakers sometimes now.

699

:

I just, again, I'm very frugal, man.

700

:

And it's not, if you're in wrestling, it's not about spending money, it's about saving

money.

701

:

And if I can save it by doing it, I'd rather just do it myself.

702

:

And I actually like to when people...

703

:

Like would you get that or who did that for you?

704

:

And I was like, I did it and they're like, man, can you do something for me?

705

:

And I'm like, no, can't like That was my issue before to I would people would always ask

because I make these tracks and stuff and I like yo We're gonna can you make me one?

706

:

I'm like no because then there's gonna be two fly people on the earth Like what makes me

different now if you have it like it just doesn't And that's my always thing like always

707

:

just being different sounding different looking different being different

708

:

and very independent when it comes to stuff like that.

709

:

That being said though, you have also made gear for people like Bailey and things like

that.

710

:

Probably people that you're close with and you resonate with, but it's cool to see that

you've taken these skills and you know, when you choose to, you can also parlay them into

711

:

other people as well.

712

:

Yeah.

713

:

I have, know, wrestling, whatever in wrestling, wrestling is my job, you know, whether

it's wrestling, training, making gear, selling merch, whatever, it's part of my job.

714

:

So, but I do value my time very much.

715

:

Like I want to spend my time with my family and doing the things I want to do, not what

other people want me to do.

716

:

So when it comes to that, like, you know, I always tell people you're paying

717

:

For the gear you're paying for my time.

718

:

So sometimes it's a lot higher than you know, most people but I also One will make sure

that you get it in time.

719

:

Make sure that it shows up Fitting a hundred percent, correct.

720

:

I actually just sent something out that I told the people I'm like, you have 30 days like

most people wouldn't even give you You know a time frame, but yeah, you have 30 days if

721

:

you want anything fixed or whatever But after that you're on your own.

722

:

So I For me to whatever I put out there.

723

:

That's my art

724

:

So I just want to make sure that my art is also being represented.

725

:

And my art doesn't just go on everybody.

726

:

I'm not a gear maker who will take everybody's gear or their money.

727

:

In fact, I only take about four or five projects a month.

728

:

Some of them are returning.

729

:

Some of them are not returning.

730

:

But I don't answer.

731

:

I answer everybody who hits me up in the DMs.

732

:

But I don't take on new clients every month.

733

:

It's just not.

734

:

I have other things in my life personally that I would rather do with my family than just

sit behind the sewing machine and, you know, I need to worry about my career, not somebody

735

:

else's.

736

:

So if it works out where I have time, then yeah, I'll do it.

737

:

But if not, it's not that big of a deal for me to say no.

738

:

Like for my people, like Bailey and all the other cats, you know, I'd work for high level

people, people on the Indies, it doesn't matter.

739

:

It's just...

740

:

One, how you are to me and two, do I have the time and three, do you have the money?

741

:

You know what saying?

742

:

Now, here's a question too, when you do parlay this into other people, do you ever add

like little Easter eggs in there too?

743

:

That it's like, you know, you would know that this is my work if you looked for this.

744

:

Yeah, okay, like everybody has their own style.

745

:

So there's two things I started doing that I think other people started biting off of me.

746

:

So I made my own tag, but I call them seasons, like kind of like fashion seasons, right?

747

:

So right now we're in season three, all the tags are different.

748

:

So you'll know which tag is, know, which person is what, or what season they came out of.

749

:

And then also too, for me personally, I always ask them kind of like similar how our

conversation was like, hey, tell me about yourself.

750

:

You know, do you have any cats or whatever?

751

:

For example, Bailey had asked for some gear in Mexico.

752

:

She wanted to do some Day of the Dead thing.

753

:

I was like, that's cool, yeah, I like that, we'll hook it up.

754

:

But on her gear, she never gave me a concept.

755

:

So was like, all right, cool, I'm gonna riff this and make it fun, make it cool.

756

:

I knew she had two cats, so I made two small cats in the sugar skull style and put them on

her waistband.

757

:

And I didn't tell her about it.

758

:

I didn't say anything about it.

759

:

I never tell anybody about.

760

:

the Easter eggs like that's what the Easter eggs are for.

761

:

So when she got them, she was like, dude, these two cats are dope.

762

:

I got two cats at my house.

763

:

I'm like, yeah, that's what, you know, I, that's why I put them there to now you'll

remember your two cats instead of worrying about like, is my match going to be good or

764

:

not?

765

:

Like, no, just look at the cats and have fun and realize even my old gear in WWE.

766

:

I had a, at the time I had four kids.

767

:

Now I have six because I have twins.

768

:

But I had four.

769

:

Thank you.

770

:

Thank you.

771

:

I had four cats.

772

:

Cat heads on my tights and they were small but like kind of like bread hearts hearts they

were representing my kids and They're all my action figure.

773

:

It's pretty cool to like see stuff like that But for other people yeah, I'll put you know,

the tag definitely helps know that it's me but also Whatever Easter egg and I don't ever

774

:

post about it either because it's just for them, you If they want to post about it, they

can I think Bailey I think she did but for the most part.

775

:

Yeah, it's just for the consumer

776

:

the customer and just try to have a...

777

:

It's art that you're wearing.

778

:

You're not wearing gear.

779

:

You're wearing art.

780

:

So as long as you feel good and look like art, that's all that matters to me.

781

:

Yeah, and every now and again, if you listen to some of the themes that I've done, every

now and again, you'll hear a little Easter egg there too.

782

:

Sometimes it'll be a little quip from something maybe, or like what we call in music and

when you improvise, like a little quote from something else, know, like maybe like a few

783

:

notes from something.

784

:

One thing when it came to a friend of mine, Mercedes Martinez, we've done a couple themes

together over the couple of years.

785

:

And whether she was working with Diamante and the No Pas one, whether it was her other

themes that we had worked on.

786

:

There's something I've started calling the Mercedes theme.

787

:

And if you listen to all three themes kind of together or separate, but you kind of listen

to the little theme that's in there, it goes through all of them.

788

:

And, there have even been times before she's like, I like it and I can understand it.

789

:

But again, someone who's necessarily not like musical, but they kind of catch the little

things.

790

:

so, so long as everything else works and really fits that vision, there are those little

pieces where you can hear in her theme.

791

:

Okay, cool.

792

:

This is the one that's gone from when she went to TNA Impact.

793

:

Then went to AEW and had this, then all of a sudden, okay, cool.

794

:

We parlayed this into the Diamante Mercedes theme, Nopaz.

795

:

And you hear these little things just like carry over between them.

796

:

And it's just, it adds a little bit of an extra through line.

797

:

So it's like in any of these creative things, you can always add these little Easter eggs

based on the people.

798

:

It's a, it's fun.

799

:

And if you're in that creative space, it gives you the ability to just go, Hey, here's

something that even resonates a little bit more or.

800

:

It doesn't have to resonate to the whole audience, like you said, with the cats for

Bailey.

801

:

It just has to hit her.

802

:

And that's what's important, yeah.

803

:

Yeah, because then once they it's funny, man, because like once you ever put on a set of

gear or listen to a song, you really do change like your mindset, your state of mind does

804

:

change.

805

:

And, you know, sometimes you get here a song, like I said earlier, and just makes you want

to run to the ring rather than be in the moment.

806

:

And then sometimes it's like, man, look at my look at the song.

807

:

I'm vibing out.

808

:

Look at my gear.

809

:

I cool, man.

810

:

Like, I'm cool.

811

:

I'm happy to be here.

812

:

I'm present.

813

:

Right?

814

:

Some songs make you feel present and then like some songs just make you feel like I want

to get the hell out of here, man.

815

:

Like, but and a lot of my theme songs in WWE made me feel like that.

816

:

And I get it.

817

:

Like WWE is not a wrestling company.

818

:

It's a movie company.

819

:

But if that's my trailer, that trailer sucks.

820

:

You know what I'm saying?

821

:

Like, give me a better trailer, man, than that, because the audience ain't going to buy

this ticket to go see this.

822

:

You know what saying?

823

:

they did.

824

:

They did and they still do and that's testament to what you're doing.

825

:

Yeah, you know, it's true.

826

:

like you said, like it's not I'm putting my efforts now into myself, the brand, and very

much protecting that.

827

:

And I always tell people, especially like promoters, I'm like, you know.

828

:

you're not going to bring me in to devalue my brand, but I am going to come in to help

elevate your company.

829

:

So we have to find some kind of compromise.

830

:

You know what I'm saying?

831

:

that was like one of the things that happened in TNA, nothing bad, but, I came in as a,

you know, an extra, but they, they, they brought me in, you know?

832

:

and basically just asked to compromise my brand twice.

833

:

And I was like, I'll do it once.

834

:

but not twice and they were super respectful about it.

835

:

And they understood like, this guy, like when I said the word brand, their minds like open

up like, this guy's not a wrestler.

836

:

Like he's a businessman.

837

:

And, you know, when I gave them the whole presentation, the music, the intro, the pictures

are like, whoa, this guy got it all.

838

:

Like, no, the brands got it all.

839

:

Cause I've thought about the brand, you know, from the music to the, it looks.

840

:

So.

841

:

Even the branding, when you get things mailed to you, remember when you sent me the, the

mask for my son and my son still has it in his room.

842

:

And I thank you for that.

843

:

I had the packaging that it was in.

844

:

It wasn't just like a FedEx box.

845

:

was literally just like everything was branded.

846

:

don't know which one I gave you.

847

:

You might have like season one.

848

:

Was it this one?

849

:

No, no, no, was the one before that then.

850

:

Yeah, it was probably season one.

851

:

Yeah.

852

:

but now, like I said, like everything has, it's a brand, man.

853

:

Like, you know, here's me selling, people like it, Lucha threads.

854

:

It's art.

855

:

You're buying art.

856

:

You're not just buying, like I said, you're buying art in time.

857

:

You're buying my time, but you're buying my art too.

858

:

So I just want to make sure that, you know, it's again, the whole aesthetic of the

experience that you get, whether it's working with me outside of the ring or working with

859

:

me in the ring.

860

:

I just want to make sure that everybody understands like when they see this logo or they

see this mask, they know exactly who it is.

861

:

know, even all my videos right now, a lot of the videos on my Instagram and Twitch,

they're just my theme song.

862

:

I'm just educating people to like, you, you hear this theme song, it's me, you know?

863

:

I don't mind overplaying it over and over again.

864

:

Like nobody's ever said, like, why do you keep using that same thing?

865

:

They know, they know why they know what's up.

866

:

And for the most part,

867

:

I've had even grown men and my colleagues like, dude, that song is bumping.

868

:

It's on my playlist.

869

:

I'm like, It's on my playlist.

870

:

And it's not because I want to listen to it.

871

:

It is a really good song to get you in the right state of mind, depending on what you're

trying to do.

872

:

for whatever reason, it puts me and gets me in the right state of mind.

873

:

And I'm just super grateful that I got it in my career.

874

:

And I'm super grateful I got to chat with you today.

875

:

You know, I know you're a busy man.

876

:

You've got six kids.

877

:

You've got so many things that you're doing.

878

:

So I just love being able to have the opportunity to chat with you today.

879

:

yeah.

880

:

for me personally, and I'm super grateful, and I wrote this down a couple of times in the

last year and a half, the music for me was what I was missing.

881

:

For me to be like the complete aesthetic character of the brand.

882

:

And I had the music before I thought I did.

883

:

But, and it was, I did, but it wasn't the brand's music.

884

:

It was just, you know, part of the wrestling community.

885

:

But now I feel as if when I'm trying to sell myself to a promoter or a commercial or

something like that, and I'm able to give them a Google Drive of updated promos, a video

886

:

package that they could play, and then my theme song, and people are like, wow, that's so

professional, thank you so much.

887

:

It makes it a lot easier.

888

:

And now, like I said, I feel so much more confident knowing who I am.

889

:

in and out of that ring, that it helps me out.

890

:

Like the music does really help me out and I'm super grateful.

891

:

Just wanna say thank you,

892

:

Of course.

893

:

Yeah.

894

:

And I'll just put over you and I'll put over two more people for the thing that you just

said about the professionalism too.

895

:

There's three people that have that whole package.

896

:

know, and probably more of the wrestling ecosystem out there has this, but you, Leo

Sparrow and Dijak all basically have your stuff in a package.

897

:

You have your intros, you have your outros.

898

:

have, know, Leo Sparrow has a one sheet with everything too, that has all places he's got.

899

:

Like it's just to see people that take that part of the professionalism.

900

:

so much more in detail.

901

:

It really resonates with me as somebody who, you know, when I put things out to people,

Hey, here's my media kit.

902

:

Here's all of the links.

903

:

Here's my photos.

904

:

Here's the PNG versions.

905

:

Like it just makes it so easy for you to be like, here's the whole package.

906

:

And I've always told people before, if you're ever getting into this industry and you're

trying to grow your brand, always have a press kit.

907

:

Number one, you need to have a press kit with all your stuff.

908

:

There are all your links and let people know who you are.

909

:

Second, you'd be surprised how many people don't even read that thing.

910

:

And they're just like, they have a press kit.

911

:

They're professional.

912

:

Yeah.

913

:

know, but it's just one of those things where seeing like you and those other two being

able to have that whole presentation together.

914

:

You know, you're a brand, you know what you're about and being able to give that to people

so easily is just awesome.

915

:

Yeah.

916

:

people, I'm like, just drag and drop me in wherever your show needs to be in your program.

917

:

Here's everything that you need.

918

:

Here's, you know, even when they pick me up, I'm like, hey bro, I'm an adult.

919

:

Like if you got somebody to pick me up, I'm great.

920

:

Like, you know, just let me know.

921

:

But yeah, it just, it goes back to what I was saying earlier real quick where I was like,

it makes it a lot easier when you're professional and you have everything set up.

922

:

You know a promoter's gonna have to do a poster, you know he's gonna have to upload your

video, you know he's gonna do this and that.

923

:

So provide them with PNGs or high res photos, provide them with a link to a YouTube video

that they could play, an intro video, not just a video, just an intro.

924

:

And like a MP4 or a WAV file for your music, that way it's there.

925

:

And all they gotta do is just drag and drop, make it super easy.

926

:

And the more...

927

:

easier that you are to work with the more work you're going to get.

928

:

That's just like, you know, super basic.

929

:

I will say, even though I do send that link that has like pictures and all them, I will

get people who will post, who will go on like Google and find already an edited PNG.

930

:

And I tell them, I'm like, bro, I won't, I won't repost it.

931

:

said, you're, you're asking me to post something that's not my brand anymore.

932

:

Like this is an old photo.

933

:

Like you have to change this.

934

:

Like at the end of the day, if you really want me to post it because

935

:

At the end of the day, I'm not trying to represent that person.

936

:

I'm representing this person who I am.

937

:

So I need a little bit more consistency.

938

:

Especially if I'm doing the work, all you gotta do is just drag and drop, you know?

939

:

Absolutely.

940

:

Well, let's say thank you so much for making the time today.

941

:

Again, you're a busy dude and I just always love the chance to be having a conversation

with you.

942

:

So thank you so much.

943

:

Absolutely, bro, man, and good luck.

944

:

I hope you get more and more people to come on here and talk about wrestling theme songs.

945

:

However, I used to say Steve Blackman earlier, Steve Blackman had a bad-ass theme song.

946

:

Just want to say that.

947

:

Yeah.

948

:

yeah, absolutely.

949

:

It totally fit him, but even if it didn't, you listen to that all the time.

950

:

man.

951

:

Yeah, that's it.

952

:

hard.

953

:

And then even his video too, the way it cut in and everything.

954

:

mint.

955

:

We could have a whole podcast episode just talking about Steve Blackman.

956

:

do the nine.

957

:

We have a whole podcast just talking about every 90s theme song like just is every every

one of them was so good and really introduced every character perfectly like Jim Johnson,

958

:

you the man, man.

959

:

We got to have him on next.

960

:

So awesome.

961

:

Thank you so much.

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About the Podcast

Ropes N Riffs
Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!
About The Host:
John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.
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John Kiernan