Downstait's Justin Call on Cody Rhodes Kingdom, Favorite Wrestling Entrance Themes, Jim Johnston
Hi everyone!
It's always awesome to speak with fellow theme song composers, especially when they're kings and legends of the space. Enter, once again, Downstait...this time, their guitarist Justin Call. Justin and I talk all about working on legendary entrance themes like Cody Rhodes Kingdom, Matt Cardona's Theme, The Miz Theme, Alex Riley's theme, and more. We also talk about how it had been to collaborate and work with WWE's former entrance theme composer Jim Johnston. What's his favorite one he's worked on? How did Isla Dawn's theme catch him by surprise?
We also play our favorite game on the show, Music City Rumble, and Justin names the musicians he'd book in a wrestling match: one men's match, one women's match, and one tag team match!
Enjoy!
-
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Do you like wrestling? Do you like music and stories from the road? Join John Kiernan, wrestling entrance theme song composer, and professional musician of over 10 years for stories and interviews with your favorite wrestlers, rock stars, and personalities!
About the Host:
John Kiernan is a wrestling entrance theme song composer with over 150 themes written for wrestlers in various promotions such as NJPW, WWE, ROH, MLW, and many more. As a professional musician, a veteran in the podcasting space, an avid pro wrestling fan and wrestling personality by way of creating the soundtracks for your favorite wrestlers, John Kiernan forges his latest podcasting venture into diving into stories of music, stories from the road, and wrestling from all walks of life from your (and his) favorites of all time.
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Transcript
do you have the guitar in arm's reach that you've recorded Kingdom and some of your other
themes with that you can show people?
2
:I'll show you the one that I did Kingdom with.
3
:Look at that.
4
:And by the way, in post, I'm just gonna pretend like here it is, snap.
5
:oh
6
:Kingdom was done with this.
7
:Ibanez GAX 70, little $200 guitar.
8
:And then like free amp software that I pirated.
9
:And then we re-amped them later.
10
:I love the fact on like how so many of us are just like, we started with freeware, it's
just really cool to be able to see like, you can do it with anything.
11
:it's the singer, not the song,
12
:I appreciate that you're making time to come on the show.
13
:thank you for joining us today.
14
:And your evanescent shirt is top shelf, absolutely top shelf.
15
:So thank you for bringing that to here too.
16
:What's up, man?
17
:Yeah, man.
18
:It's been a while since we had talked and a funny story for those listening.
19
:I was having some technical issues when we first started the show here and Justin was
awesome enough to come on, make time in his schedule.
20
:And then I was like, Hey, this got messed up.
21
:So this is actually his second time on the show.
22
:Although you're only hearing the second, not the first, but we're excited to have you
back.
23
:I always say this to you guys, like off pod and whatnot.
24
:You guys are always crushing it.
25
:always new music and you you guys are releasing originals.
26
:You're obviously a staple in the wrestling entrance themes as you have been for years now.
27
:we're going to start off probably in a place that a lot of people wouldn't expect us to,
but it is your most recent entrance theme that I've heard going around in the socials for
28
:one Isla Dawn.
29
:Isla Dawn is awesome for anyone listening.
30
:You know, I led on is awesome.
31
:And I was very, very surprised to hear what you guys came up with for her.
32
:Walk us through that.
33
:I'm not even going to preface anything else.
34
:Just walk us through that theme specifically.
35
:expectations were to do something darker.
36
:That's what we were expecting to do.
37
:But our initial conversations, she was just like, I love, I think it was like radio Disney
pop and pop rock.
38
:I go, okay.
39
:So she sent me a couple samples.
40
:I was like, wow, this is not where I thought we were going with this, but it was nice to
be thrown a curve ball and to get to do something challenging and new.
41
:Now, with something like that too, you know, when I'm doing themes for people, I'll tell
them to send me references of what they want, but also if they have any imagery of what's
42
:coming, right, send me that stuff over also.
43
:And for those who remember what she was doing in WWE with her and Kaylee Ray, amazing
stuff there too.
44
:But absolutely not like the bubblegum pop rock stuff that you guys wrote.
45
:did she send you any sort of visual references like, hey, this is the direction I'm going?
46
:Or...
47
:In a way, are we supposed to expect the Isle of Dawn darkness stuff, but hey, I just
really love this stuff too.
48
:I think she was playing it close to the vest, so we just got the musical references, not a
whole lot of character stuff.
49
:I love that.
50
:there are a lot of times where you get just the music or you get the whole package or you
kind of just get a sentence.
51
:So when you guys write entrance themes for people, how often do you get like a full
package of what someone is looking for versus maybe a small piece of what someone might be
52
:portraying?
53
:And then you got to kind of fill in the blanks.
54
:It's kind of all over the place.
55
:Every client is different.
56
:Some people really know what they want and they know who they are and they've got the
whole thing figured out and then they're able to help with lyrics and certain words and
57
:catchphrases or things like that.
58
:So that's nice to have kind of a roadmap to get you where you need to go.
59
:And then the freedom when they don't really know is also nice too, because then we can end
up helping them figure out who they are when we're doing lyrics or anything like that.
60
:And I love the fact too on how you have all that wide scope, right?
61
:There's so many ways to go about writing a theme and the more involved you can be in the
more information you have, the closer you can get to what they're looking for.
62
:And I think you kind of hit it on the head.
63
:Like some wrestlers know what they want.
64
:They know the direction.
65
:They know what they're trying to, you know, put out there.
66
:And some are just like, Hey, you're filling in that gap for them too, which is really
cool.
67
:And you're in a way you're even more.
68
:part of that journey.
69
:And that one you also did a collaboration with somebody as well.
70
:Yeah, Sean's girlfriend jumped on that track, Chrissy, and yeah, that worked out really
well.
71
:It was just an extra harmony that we wanted there.
72
:And then Iola said she really liked the duet aspect of that.
73
:So it was a really nice blend.
74
:again, too.
75
:If for those who know downstate, you work with everybody, but when you hear that
production and you hear those riffs, did you hear, there's this awesome voice going up
76
:against Zach.
77
:You're just like, wait a minute.
78
:This is new.
79
:This is awesome.
80
:And with her too, you said that with Sean's girlfriend.
81
:Yeah, so Sean and his girlfriend sang on that one and it sounds really great with those
two together.
82
:Of course you would have musical people like that in your ecosystem.
83
:Of course you would.
84
:I was telling you last time when I was talking with Zach, he was just like, hey, you know,
we are going to be doing something for Ayladon, but we really can't say too much about it.
85
:And I don't know if that time you guys had started working on it a couple of months ago.
86
:And so to hear what the final product sounds like, again,
87
:It's also just so energetic too.
88
:It's upbeat.
89
:It's in your face the other theme that you had since our last conversation, was for
formerly known as Baron Corbin, now known as Bishop Dyer.
90
:That song is awesome.
91
:That song is heavy.
92
:I love it.
93
:It includes Matt Heafy from Trivium, which I am I'm Trivium's stan for life.
94
:Y'all know that already.
95
:I love Trivium and I love you guys.
96
:So with that one, you had a version that was going for, when he first debuted on the
Indies.
97
:And then you went through a couple of different vocalists and then you landed on Matt
Heafy and you guys, which is just like, Hey, can't go wrong with that.
98
:Not at all.
99
:Yeah, that was a fun one to do.
100
:Yeah, the music side of that just flowed out super quick.
101
:Once we got that kind of opening riff, everything just kind of fell into place really
quickly.
102
:And then we just played a show, it was at the end of July.
103
:And...
104
:We just decided that that was gonna be the first time we'd ever played that song.
105
:And then stuff happened with the set list and we we ended up opening with it also.
106
:So the first song of the night was one that we were playing for the very first time, but
it went really well.
107
:And that was a great show too.
108
:that was a show that you guys had planned for a while and you guys were putting down,
we're going be doing entrance themes, original music, and just watching some of the video
109
:back and watching the songs that you did.
110
:how was it being back on stage with all of this new music under your belt too?
111
:Just felt like home and We had a lot of people there supporting us.
112
:We had a great team behind us too to make sure everything happened, but Yeah, it was so
great to be back on stage
113
:one thing that I noticed from you guys playing live is, and this also goes to the stuff
that you record, you guys do a great job at sounding live, how you sound on the record
114
:too.
115
:you guys did, I came to play and I saw that and I was just like, all right, cool.
116
:When you write entrance themes or you record them, you kind of do what you need for the
sake of the song.
117
:Right.
118
:But I saw you guys performing that and I'm just like, dude, there is a not night and day
difference between you guys performing it and it being on the record.
119
:it seems like you guys have such intention when you're writing and then when you guys play
it live, you're like, how are we going to bring this out live?
120
:you guys bring it, you know what you need.
121
:you guys, again, it was just such a cool thing to see the boys in downstate sound exactly
like you expect them to from the record to live.
122
:I really appreciate it.
123
:We take a lot of pride in that and put a lot of time into rehearsing to make sure that it
sounds like that.
124
:are some of your favorite ones that you think translate really well in a live performance?
125
:I came to play, always does really well and we've been playing it so long that it's, I
mean, could probably do it in our sleep.
126
:Say It To My Face is super intense live.
127
:Kingdom has been getting a great response with its rise in popularity.
128
:So that was really cool to hear a crowd at our show do the woe.
129
:So that was pretty neat.
130
:I'm just envisioning you guys waiting for it.
131
:and again, like bands can go ahead and place things in their songs.
132
:They're like, all right, cool.
133
:Here comes the part where they're supposed to do the thing, but you've been seeing people
do the thing for years, right?
134
:And in interviews I've seen that you guys have done before, it was something where the woe
was moved from song to song to song.
135
:So it's something that you guys put in there, but now the woe has its own life.
136
:And I bet you guys are sitting there on stage, just like the parts coming, the parts
coming.
137
:Don't mess it up guys, you're not gonna mess it up, but don't mess it up.
138
:Yeah.
139
:a nice little pause there so that was the only thing that you would hear at the show was
just the crowd.
140
:for you guys to go on stage and play Kingdom, like you've played Kingdom, you played Cody
to the ring before for AEW.
141
:You guys are now playing it as part of your set.
142
:since Cody's been using that theme, he's been using it now for years.
143
:He it in the Indies, he used it in AEW.
144
:He brought it over to WWE.
145
:Infamously, Cody is saying, look, I need that song.
146
:That song comes with me.
147
:There's so much detail to it.
148
:Now going from
149
:company to company to company, the lyrics seem to take on such different meaning now, when
you think of like great entrance themes, and I'm not saying this year because we're
150
:friends or you're in front of me or anything like that.
151
:when you hear like a really great and themic rock wrestling theme, that's what you
envision, especially with like later on, there's got the screams and things like that.
152
:I think you guys really continue to nail that on the head with Cody
153
:You guys have talked about over time how that song came to be and whatnot.
154
:Now we just need you to play Cody to the ring in WWE and the prophecy will be fulfilled,
ladies and gentlemen.
155
:that would be great.
156
:That's the dream.
157
:There just hasn't been a good time to do that just yet.
158
:I know that they've worked out a deal where they're gonna have so many events in Indy
here.
159
:And that's just a short drive away for us.
160
:So fingers crossed that that happens in the future.
161
:You just got to tell Zach not to go on stage and do what he did for Bishop Dyer.
162
:Go fuck yourselves.
163
:And then coding, but he plays kingdom.
164
:He was telling us about that on the last, on the last interview.
165
:And he was just like, yeah, you know, we got to that show and they were just like, Hey,
let's go ahead and like be part of the show.
166
:And before they even started playing it, it was just like, I got to say something, go fuck
yourselves.
167
:Matt Cardona, he just wanted us to rile up the crowd before he came out.
168
:So he was like, ah, just something quick.
169
:Go fuck yourself.
170
:He was like, yeah, perfect.
171
:you're synonymous with so many wrestlers You know, you're synonymous with Cody you're
synonymous with Matt Cardona now you're becoming synonymous, you know with Bishop Dyer
172
:But if you had to go ahead and put your hand on the pulse and say, this is the other theme
that I think people are really recognizing Downstate and us with, what would that theme
173
:be?
174
:I came to play keeps rearing its head where people are like, did you know that they're the
same band that did this?
175
:The redesign, rebuild, reclaim, that has this popularity that we didn't see coming.
176
:That one stays in the top 10 for our Spotify count.
177
:Before I knew you guys, man, before like we started connecting, that was such, and it's
still on my playlist now, but like I remember hearing that and when you know that Seth
178
:Rollins is into like misery signals and bands like that, you're like, man, that's going to
make its way on TV.
179
:And then I was always just like, what happened with that?
180
:Cause it's like, it's such a cool take on the second coming or you know, whatever you want
to call that denomination of that theme, right?
181
:And I was always so shocked that it never made it.
182
:to TV.
183
:was that a theme that you wrote for Seth and he was like, hey, I'm gonna go ahead and try
and take it to the office?
184
:Or was it more of like a, inspired by and then it took on a life of its own?
185
:We put a fan poll on Twitter with a bunch of wrestlers that had instrumental themes
186
:that current wrestlers were using and Seth Rollins won out just edging out Kevin Owens.
187
:man.
188
:I want to see a downstate version of Fight.
189
:There may be something on my neck of the woods with the collaboration on that with someone
over here, hush hush, wink wink, say no more on that.
190
:But I want to see you guys take a stab at Fight.
191
:So this is officially it.
192
:Kevin, I know you're off recovering and doing your thing, but this is officially letting
you know something's brewing and something else may be brewing.
193
:I'm putting words in Justin's mouth right now.
194
:I am sorry.
195
:Awesome.
196
:Yeah, that would have been a great one for him to start using.
197
:you know, I think about Seth Rollins and where his theme has come.
198
:it's just that theme at that time was like the perfect culmination of it.
199
:And I think a lot of people felt the same way.
200
:You know, I think a lot of people ended up seeing like, hey, this theme has legs.
201
:And did you guys expect it to make it there?
202
:Or was it something where, again, the fan poll ended up doing what it did?
203
:and you were just like, this is just a great song.
204
:Let's hope they pick it up.
205
:And if they don't, wild ride, ladies and gentlemen.
206
:Yeah, we just had a good time with it.
207
:We didn't really have any expectations.
208
:So when you're coming up with themes for wrestlers also, you know, I know for me, you take
the references, you kind of think about who the character is and you put something down.
209
:And a lot of the times, you know, what I do and what you guys do too, is you send it to
wrestlers, they tell you if they like it and you workshop it back and forth.
210
:For you guys, you guys have such a sound that is distinctly downstate, but can go into all
of these different avenues too.
211
:let's talk about Kingdom for a second and then we'll dive into some other ones.
212
:with Kingdom, how much did Cody tell you in advance, like, hey, this is the direction I
want to go to?
213
:Because I know you've mentioned some of the references from it before, but I'd argue that
a lot of the references he sent you don't sound like Kingdom.
214
:No, not really.
215
:think maybe it was just kind of a tempo thing and that was really on the music end all we
really needed to get down.
216
:Throne by Bring Me the Horizon was one of the big ones that Cody was like, I really like
the message of this song and that's what I want to do with the lyrics for this.
217
:But when we were coming up with the music,
218
:I really wanted something to drive like decode from Paramore.
219
:So we have a drum pattern that's a little similar to that, but it drives through that
chorus really well.
220
:Just wanted to do something different.
221
:And shout out to Decode too.
222
:I'm such a big Paramore fan and I think Decode is, I wish I could even say it's underrated
so I could use the word underrated because when you say things are underrated, people
223
:click on it.
224
:But no, it is an amazing song and it's definitely one of Paramore's best too.
225
:But now I am envisioning a world where Cody to some degree walks out to Paramore's Decode.
226
:It wouldn't fit.
227
:Maybe he'd make anything work.
228
:But I'm just picturing where the woe would fit in there too.
229
:right.
230
:But yeah, no, that's a great one.
231
:with that theme that's taken on so many different roles now.
232
:I asked Zach this, so now I got to ask you, when you guys write Kingdom for Cody pre-WWE
and him coming back, do you guys envision where this theme is going to end up going into
233
:all of these different arenas, into...
234
:all these different venues into WrestleMania where Cody beats the four year champion,
Roman Reigns.
235
:And it's this just celebration playing on loop for 15 minutes.
236
:Do you guys envision that when you're writing Kingdom or are you just like, it's a great
theme and then everything happens and you're like, this is crazy.
237
:Well, at the time that was the first one and no, I didn't see it going as far as it's
gone.
238
:I've always believed in Cody, but this is just nuts to see how far that song has spread
because of him.
239
:This was the first time that we got to...
240
:like not have our hand held because everything with WWE before then was Jim Johnston's
baby.
241
:And he would give you a skeleton and you have to make it your own.
242
:But he had a lot to do with kind of the character development side of that.
243
:So he would have all the lyrics too.
244
:So there wasn't a lot of wiggle room to change anything when it came to that.
245
:But with music, it was about us making it our own.
246
:So when you would work with Jim Johnson, it was like, Hey, I have this idea and I know
this band that can get it where it needs to be.
247
:So I basically am hiring them in as a session.
248
:Yes, that's exactly how it went.
249
:And then the way we approached Kingdom was like, okay, we just wanna make a good song
first before an entrance theme.
250
:So we approached it like, let's make a single, let's make a really good song.
251
:Just with themes at the time, it's...
252
:kind of dumbed down and simplistic, of, this is who I am, this is where I'm from, this is
what I'm about, and like that's kind of all the theme was.
253
:Jim kind of changed that a little bit and.
254
:But with Kingdom, yeah, was more about the song first before a wrestling theme.
255
:That's something I think I learned from you guys too, because for me, as an entrance theme
song guy, I have always, and I think this comes from me going to music school too, where
256
:they were just like, if you want to be a successful composer, either A, do what Beethoven
did, then die and wait 600 years for people to discover your stuff, otherwise be really
257
:versatile.
258
:And I was like, okay, cool.
259
:So for me, I always tried, and even to this day, I try to take an angle of like lots of
260
:just styles that I would never do, like Latin trap and things like that, right?
261
:Or things that I wouldn't do kind of natively.
262
:And I've always felt like I've grown in that way, but I've never, let's say, had like a
defined style, so to speak.
263
:And I've always tried to think in like a composer head.
264
:And I'm not saying you guys don't, but like when I started listening to some of the themes
from you guys, I was like, these are just bangers.
265
:And like, how do I go ahead and create something like that?
266
:Like Alex and I just did one for Layla Hirsch, which...
267
:I love, that was probably one of my favorite themes.
268
:And with that one, she gave references, hey, this is what they did in AEW.
269
:These are some of the songs that I like, and this is who I am.
270
:And I remember thinking like changing my mentality and being like, okay, cool.
271
:This is somebody who's a wrestler.
272
:Like they're a good wrestler.
273
:And this is a bit of their story, but they're not like the undertaker who's dead and you
could just write a funeral dirge and a minor key for him.
274
:You know, I'm just like, what else can we do?
275
:And I thought about it from like, what would Downstate do?
276
:Seriously.
277
:And I'm just like, they would just write a banger tune that really described the wrestler
and really did a great job of like highlighting their story in the lyrics and just being
278
:really powerful and really punchy.
279
:And to this day, it's unreleased as of this recording, but I'm just like, man, I'm super
proud of that one.
280
:And I think it comes down to like thinking about what would downstate do WWDD.
281
:WWDD.
282
:Yes.
283
:That's incredible.
284
:yeah, I just did.
285
:shapes.
286
:That's the new shirt pro wrestling tees.com w w d d
287
:Yeah, I just did a theme that hasn't released yet, but they wanted something that was I
came to play and Kingdom mashed together.
288
:I was like, I'm influencing myself now.
289
:I was gonna say, how often do you get people asking you like, all right, cool.
290
:know, probably people are asking for themes that you've done and aren't even familiar that
it's you.
291
:Yeah.
292
:That's so cool.
293
:And it's interesting too, because it's a, again, like I was saying earlier, you guys have
such a distinct style, but you can do so many different things too.
294
:heart won't quit has been one of my favorite ones that you guys have done recently too,
for Indy Hartwell.
295
:And Indy's been using it all over the place.
296
:And Indy is a person where, the second I hear heart won't quit, I'm like, yup, that's it.
297
:That's the one.
298
:How does that come to be with Indie Heartwell and creating that theme?
299
:Because again, Zach talked about the lyrical side.
300
:So for you, how do you come to say, OK, cool, we want this to be a little bit more of like
describe as kind of like that:
301
:That's exactly what she wanted.
302
:She, I don't remember the exact song that she picked up, but she loved the Limp Bizkit
vibe and.
303
:I know, I I got some new drum samples that would get more of that like piccolo sound.
304
:the riffs just come to me.
305
:And then I knew that the parts that weren't heavy had to be like really effect driven.
306
:Cause I know that West does a lot of that stuff.
307
:So I just tried to get in the heads of the references.
308
:And so you're talking about like these drum samples that you had just gotten.
309
:So you do a lot of the writing and a lot of the production.
310
:know all you guys in downstate do to what degree, like, and at what point on the drum side
does the production from you guys stop, let's say are from you.
311
:And what, at what point does Mark step in to be like, Hey, I'm going to add my own flare
to them.
312
:Like, does Mark record at the same place as you guys on like an e-kit or does like, how
does that work for the drum side?
313
:Because.
314
:As somebody who produces themes also, it's like, I don't usually source out drums unless
it's like very specific.
315
:Like I've had Rob Williams on one and I've had my buddy on another one, but like usually
I'm just programming them into the computer.
316
:I don't usually have a live drummer on them.
317
:Yeah, that's what I'm doing right now.
318
:I'm still doing that.
319
:We haven't had Mark play on a track yet.
320
:It's just so much easier for me to program everything right now.
321
:Yeah.
322
:For me, someone that doesn't play drums, it's like, okay, cool.
323
:Let's sequence it in.
324
:like, really, I listened back to the drums that I put in and I'm like, these are good.
325
:These are good.
326
:But then I really see someone who plays drums and I'm like, I see how this is supposed to
be done.
327
:It's awesome.
328
:But that's awesome.
329
:you guys have been doing a lot of themes recently.
330
:What's been one of your favorite ones that you've done recently?
331
:Live for Revenge was great.
332
:I really loved doing that with the kind of 3-4 feel, even though it's in 4-4.
333
:That was really fun to do that.
334
:Man, I wish I could talk about some of the other ones that we're doing, but I can't.
335
:Yeah, Live for Revenge, you guys also got Matt Heafy onto that track too.
336
:I know Bishop Dyer always talks about like, hey, you know, he's
337
:got some friends within the industry and we ended up having different people that we were
thinking on it.
338
:Walk us through a little bit on getting Matt Heafy onto that track, because Matt obviously
is from Trivium.
339
:Trivium is one of my favorites.
340
:What was the process of getting Matt on that track also?
341
:He's just friends with Tom.
342
:Tom knew him and asked him if he'd be down to do it and he was super down and like tracked
it right away and we just got to mixing.
343
:It was awesome.
344
:And Matt's another guy too, who, you know, if you know Trivium or actually I'll say this,
you know Trivium, you know how they sound.
345
:But if you know Matt, Matt's got his whole home studio.
346
:He does everything on Twitch.
347
:And so he's one of those guys who I think really early on started innovating on, okay,
cool.
348
:Like you can do the solo musician thing on your own too.
349
:Like I've seen him do covers you'd never think of him doing online.
350
:And his studio is great.
351
:His Twitch streams are awesome.
352
:And so for me, every time I see Matt there and you're like, we tracked it real quick.
353
:I'm like, well, of course he did.
354
:He's like you guys, you know, he has his home studio and he's able to do all of that too.
355
:and it's something I tell people who are always looking to get into entrance theme work.
356
:Also, I'm like, man, or even just session work in general, if you don't have a home
studio, this becomes very difficult to do.
357
:Yeah, I'm lucky to have this space in my house.
358
:One thing I wanted to ask you too, if you have it around and if you don't, totally cool.
359
:You don't have to play any riffs on it, but
360
:do you have the guitar in arm's reach that you've recorded Kingdom and some of your other
themes with that you can show people?
361
:I'll show you the one that I did Kingdom with.
362
:Look at that.
363
:And by the way, in post, I'm just gonna pretend like here it is, snap.
364
:oh
365
:Kingdom was done with this.
366
:Ibanez GAX 70, little $200 guitar.
367
:And then like free amp software that I pirated.
368
:And then we re-amped them later.
369
:I love that.
370
:I love the fact on like how so many of us are just like, we started with freeware, I tell
people, I'm just like, and you probably heard this on the show a couple of different
371
:times, but I'm just like, man, it's just really cool to be able to see like, you can do it
with anything.
372
:And it's the, it's the singer, not the song,
373
:right?
374
:You get to see that instrument.
375
:And I think people hear,
376
:things like kingdom or things like just any of the themes that any of us have done.
377
:And they're just like, man, I need to go get that $3,000 Gibson.
378
:And it's like, no, you don't.
379
:You just got to make what works for you work for you.
380
:Yep, exactly.
381
:I love that.
382
:Now with some of the gear that you have as go-to for other themes, is that still your
go-to guitar?
383
:Or are there other guitars that you're just like, hey, these are the new whips now?
384
:this is my baby.
385
:This is my favorite one right here.
386
:uh Catalina Dream, Mira, Paul Reed Smith.
387
:uh
388
:too, my friend.
389
:my gosh.
390
:I love that thing.
391
:I've got a couple around, but yeah, I love my Paul Reed Smiths.
392
:I'm almost surprised you didn't have like a seven or something, because either you're
detuning your guitar as always, or you have a seven somewhere that you're just not always
393
:showing to the public.
394
:Yep, they're all down pretty low.
395
:But I've got the 7 here too.
396
:one right here this thing's really nice too but I'm able to get a bunch of the lower stuff
with the six strings and just doing truss rod adjustments and things like that
397
:I love that.
398
:do I even have any over here?
399
:It's funny.
400
:There's a guitar I always put in.
401
:that I use for everything, but this is like my main one.
402
:This Balaguer Toro.
403
:It's, I love this guitar.
404
:It's great.
405
:It has the NWA championship on it.
406
:That's not why it's great, but it's to me, it's become one of the most versatile guitars
and all my guitars have like a little sticker on the bottom because I'm a child.
407
:But if you do that too, you're not a child.
408
:I just happen to be a child.
409
:But yeah, for me, when it comes to sevens, this one is the one that most of the seven
string themes are written on.
410
:This is a Balaguer Hyperion.
411
:And I saw racing stripes with because of the color and I'm like, this is cool.
412
:But also you see something like this and it looks totally unassuming.
413
:And then you're just like, yeah, that's where all the heavy themes come from.
414
:Yeah, I did Indy's song with the seven string.
415
:I think that's down to like G sharp.
416
:It's really low.
417
:I love that.
418
:That's awesome.
419
:If you could write for one person you haven't gotten the opportunity to write to, if you
could write for somebody that you haven't gotten the opportunity to write for yet, who
420
:would it be?
421
:a tough one.
422
:I would love to finish the Kevin Owens theme.
423
:It's such a brutal, guttural song that it would just be really fun to put some more to
that.
424
:I would love to finish putting vocals on Britt's theme.
425
:She just really liked the instrumental.
426
:It would be cool to put something full together for that song.
427
:So Brit's theme originally was supposed to have lyrics.
428
:it was just an option that we gave her, because she was asking about it and she wanted our
advice and I was like, well, it definitely makes the song stand out when it's got words.
429
:Yeah, yeah, definitely.
430
:And you know, with someone like Britt, it's a matter of how do you write outside of Isaac
Yankham?
431
:How do you write a theme for somebody who it's like, hey, I'm a wrestler, but I happen to
be a dentist also.
432
:I think their lyrics are very strong, but she owns it, man.
433
:She's great.
434
:And I'm just always such a fan of hers.
435
:And the theme again, sometimes it doesn't have to be, hey, you're portraying a dentist.
436
:can just be you're portraying someone completely badass.
437
:it had a dentist drill at one point at Cody's request.
438
:But yeah, we nixed that right away.
439
:So at Cody's request, was this one of those things where he's just like, I think it'll
work.
440
:Or is it one of these things where he's like, you want to really rib Britt Baker, go ahead
and throw a drill in there and let's just, let's see what happens.
441
:Just, just give it to her and let's see.
442
:was, but it had a drill at one time and we got rid of it.
443
:See, if we get bread on the show at one point, I have to ask her about that.
444
:So apparently your theme had lyrics and a drill.
445
:What's that version of it sound like?
446
:This is the part that we clip out on socials and then all of a sudden she's just like,
yup.
447
:And then there's like little snippet of her holding up her phone with it.
448
:That's awesome.
449
:I want to go back real quick and talk about something that you had mentioned before,
because it's not something I've really discussed with.
450
:you before and it's something I don't think I don't know how much you've discussed it but
it's working kind of with Jim Johnston also a little bit because Jim Johnston obviously
451
:was with WWE for years and now he's not and he needs to be on the show and all that stuff
so let's throw that into the universe right hashtag Jim Johnston on the show that's a long
452
:hashtag but you guys worked with him on a bunch of different themes and
453
:I know how Jim Johnston kind of operated on his own thing, know, just long nights doing
his thing, creating these themes 20 hours over at the Stanford office kind of thing.
454
:But when Jim taps you guys to work on a song, you said that most of the collaboration that
happens is he has the, or you say most of the process that happens is he has the song, he
455
:gives it to you, you do it in the downstate way, and then you send it back to him
basically.
456
:Yeah, that's exactly what happens.
457
:So he'll send you a skeleton with kind of just some quick program drums and just him kind
of one take vocals with all the lyrics written out and everything.
458
:And then you take that and turn it into something all your own.
459
:Was there ever an opportunity with Jim Johnson where he was like, hey, I do have kind of a
skeleton, but at the same time, I'd love to do more of a collaboration with you?
460
:Or was it always kind of like, for lack of a better term, work for hire for Jim Johnson?
461
:It was work for hire, but...
462
:it didn't seem like he pulled the reins too tight on the music.
463
:The lyrics needed to stay where they were at because that was part of his contribution to
the character.
464
:But yeah, with music, was kind of like, Jim would help us get into his head space too
about, this is a real cerebral character.
465
:This guy's a psycho, things like that.
466
:Try to reflect that with the music.
467
:Yeah, that was his process and the reins were not pulled too tight when we were doing
music.
468
:were you ever in studio with Jim Johnson?
469
:So he would contact Sahaj, our producer, and if he was in Florida or California, we would
end up going to his house and...
470
:To it to my face, we were at Sean's Lake and got the call Thursday.
471
:We flew out the next day, did the entire song over the weekend, and it debuted on Raw
before we were able to get back from the airport.
472
:This is probably before you could watch TV on the planes and everything.
473
:And it's still kind of wonky to do that.
474
:But you also have to think about that too.
475
:Like, I don't think a lot of people understand how quick a turnaround entrance themes
sometimes have.
476
:And especially for, when it came to that timeframe in WWE too.
477
:Hey, we need a theme for somebody.
478
:Great.
479
:Here's Thursday.
480
:It needs to be turned around.
481
:Here's this.
482
:Cool.
483
:Monday.
484
:Great.
485
:No edit notes.
486
:Just do this.
487
:That's awesome.
488
:And, um, what's the fastest one you guys have done?
489
:Was it that one?
490
:That's such a crazy one.
491
:And think about how well known say it to my face is and how, like you said, how intense it
is too.
492
:That's one of those times where it's just like, you know, what a song needs to be.
493
:You know, what an entrance needs to be, and you know, what it absolutely does not need to
be.
494
:And then that's it.
495
:Just print and go with that.
496
:That's awesome.
497
:It's interesting too, because.
498
:You know, with someone like Jim,
499
:I've seen videos of him where like even like DX, for example, right?
500
:He put together that theme and that's in like F sharp.
501
:He's doing it on a sixth string.
502
:He's doing it in E standard.
503
:To what degree do you have the reins to be able to change it to heavier guitars and change
the key and things like that?
504
:Because I know that you said that he was sending you the lyrics and the melodies and
whatnot.
505
:Does he tell you, I need it much lower?
506
:Or is it something where, like you said, he gives you, or he gave you the reins at that
point to put it into whatever kind of style the downstate boys do?
507
:I think we just kind of took the approach of...
508
:ask for forgiveness, not permission.
509
:So like when we got, came to play, it went down a full step from the demo that he'd sent
us and he never had an issue with it.
510
:That's awesome.
511
:I do want to hear a Jim Johnston rap of I Came to Play.
512
:I do want to hear him doing Sean's part.
513
:That's just kind of now knowing that collaboration.
514
:I'm just like, I want to hear that.
515
:I'd have to find it.
516
:It's been a long time.
517
:But there is, but there is recording evidence that Jim Johnston did rap a little bit.
518
:That's awesome.
519
:That's going to be one of those ones that gets pulled out of the shadows.
520
:that there's actual recorded evidence of Jim Johnston rapping his version of I came to
play before downstate crushed it?
521
:Yes, sir.
522
:So I'm going to go ahead and ask you two questions that I ask everyone before we're done
here.
523
:So question number one.
524
:if you had to book a three match wrestling card and the participants were musicians duking
it out in the squared circle, what would those matches be?
525
:Who would they involve?
526
:What kind of matches would they be?
527
:And then who would go over?
528
:See.
529
:I'd say Rob from Nonpoint, their drummer.
530
:He's a big dude.
531
:Yeah.
532
:Let's see, who are some other ones?
533
:Man, Corey Lowry is a big dude too.
534
:I see him duking it out.
535
:Let's see.
536
:So Corey Lauerle versus Rob from Nonpoint.
537
:god, I would hate that though.
538
:How about a tag team match, band versus band?
539
:Who would that be?
540
:gosh.
541
:I just want everybody to get along.
542
:Well, I'll ask this, how about downstate versus who?
543
:That's a five on five, ladies and gentlemen.
544
:I think people want to see us take on Deaf Rebel.
545
:To take on those guys.
546
:That's a five on three, but I'm here for it.
547
:Yeah, very unfair.
548
:that'd be a great one.
549
:And then you know what?
550
:you've done a one-on-one, you've done a team.
551
:So now let's do one,
552
:Let's do one women's match.
553
:I'm say Poppy.
554
:There's a lot of anger in a small package there.
555
:Seems like she'd be wily.
556
:Against.
557
:Say Pat Benatar.
558
:I'm just picturing her entrance to or like she's cutting a promo and she's like, Love is a
battlefield and it's going to be a rough battlefield for you.
559
:I love that.
560
:And then the last question I ask everyone what would be three songs that you would put on
a Spotify playlist that represent you, Justin as a person?
561
:Broken Down by Seven Dust.
562
:That was a huge inspiration for me.
563
:someone else by queens rike
564
:streamlined by System Overdown.
565
:Ooh, great system choice too.
566
:That was on, steal this album, right?
567
:I think.
568
:Yeah.
569
:Great song.
570
:Also really under that I can use really underrated record.
571
:I love, I love that record.
572
:five, or at least the opening riff is in five.
573
:Really weird.
574
:damn, great choices.
575
:And thank you so much for being on the show too.
576
:I know we talk over text all the time and you guys are just continuing to crush it.
577
:And the fact that you...
578
:made time for little old me today.
579
:always appreciate that.
580
:Thank you, my friend.
581
:Thank you for having me, bud.
