Adam Page Theme Composer Vincent Pedulla on Hangman Adam Page, Composing for Netflix, Serj Tankian

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Thanks for checking out this episode of the Ropes and Riffs podcast.

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This is John, your host, Today, I'm very happy and very excited to be speaking with one

Vincent Padula.

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For those who may go, Vincent Padula, I know that name.

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He's the gentleman who has written the Adam Page themes since he has been in AEW.

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So if you know Black Hat, if you know Ghost Town Triumph, if you know Hangman's Tale, if

you know any of these,

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This is the man behind that.

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But he's not just somebody who's done hangman Adam Page's theme.

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He's someone that has worked on lots of Netflix series.

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He's someone who's worked on advertisements.

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He's worked on TV shows.

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So even though you may know him mostly,

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from the Hangman Adam Page themes that he's done, you've probably heard his work in lots

of different places.

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So we're gonna have a great conversation with him.

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He's also worked with Serge from System of a Down on lots of different music.

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So for me being a little gentleman all the way up to 36 year old me right now, System of a

Down is a huge influence on me and I hope they're an influence on you too.

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So we talk about that as well.

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So enjoy the interview with Vincent Padula coming up.

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Just a couple of things to get out of the way.

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And also, something new that we're putting out here, if you donate $10 or more to the

show, I'll go ahead and shout you out here at the beginning.

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I love the fact that we're building such an awesome audience here talking about music,

talking about wrestling, and talking about wrestling entrance themes with wrestlers and

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musicians of all shapes and sizes.

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So enough of that, enough of you hearing me.

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Let's go ahead and jump into our interview here with Vincent Padula.

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Vinny, thank you so much for making the time to chat with us today.

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How's it going over there?

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Hey John, pretty good, how are you doing?

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Did you have a good holiday?

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Yeah, it's crazy to think that we're almost out of the holiday, but December is basically

just holiday, that's it.

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But when we're recording this, we're right at New Year's, New Year's Eve is tomorrow, so

I'm assuming you've got some things going down for New Year's Eve, New Year's.

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Well, maybe, but I have two daughters and one of them woke up throwing up this morning.

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she's got whatever's going on, the bug, and well, if you see me start vomiting

uncontrollably during the podcast, you'll know I have it too.

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So I don't know.

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We'll see what happens.

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if you start vomiting uncontrollably, you can just blame me.

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You can just be like, I'm looking at this guy, and that's it.

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My daughters are fine.

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It's this guy here.

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obviously we're going to talk a bit about the work that you've done with Hangman Adam Page

and in my opinion, some of the best themes that are out there right now.

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And I'm not just saying that because you're on screen, but as somebody that does this

professionally too, I love to hear when themes are really in the pocket of being able to

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represent the person that they're bringing down to the ring and really represent each

wrestler.

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But before we go into that,

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I want to go ahead and give you an opportunity to let everybody know basically what you've

done within the music and multimedia industry because you've done a lot of work for a lot

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of different shows, a lot of different movies, and you're not just doing things for

wrestlers, but you've also done a lot for various visual media.

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Yeah, everything you can imagine.

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I do a lot of work in advertising.

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I've done a lot of work in TV.

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I've done a few shows for Netflix, one of which just came out, Cold Case, Who Killed John

Bonet, Ramsey.

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That's directed by Joe Berlinger.

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It was a fun show to work on before that.

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We did Hitler and the Nazis, Evil on Trial.

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It's a six-part series.

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chronicling the rise and fall of the Third Reich.

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Before that, a couple of seasons of a Netflix show called Crime Scene.

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yeah, done shows, done TV, worked on some film stuff.

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Pretty much anything you can imagine.

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I've kind of dipped my toes in whatever I can get, really.

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So, it's been fun.

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Now for you, do you have a specific kind of medium that you like to work for more?

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Like for me, I love working on shorter form content, right?

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I love that.

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But I've also over the years become such a fan of doing music for like video games and

things like that.

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And a lot of the work I've done for those have been more, you know, smaller independent

video games.

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But I've always felt like for me, that's where kind of like put John in a scoring

scenario.

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What do you really resonate with?

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I've always felt like that's kind of my medium, but do you feel...

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Like, there's a specific medium that resonates more with you.

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Film, TV, advertising for when you score.

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I probably enjoy TV the most just because it takes place over a, you know, extended arc.

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You get to really build themes over multiple episodes.

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You get to kind of...

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Take things on a journey, go places you're not really limited to.

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It's tough in advertising you're trying to pack all this into 30 seconds or 60 seconds.

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A whole film's worth of ideas but in TV you really get space to kind of stretch out,

develop things over time so I like doing that kind of thing.

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And it's funny too that we're talking about doing the hangman theme where it's evolved

over time too and it makes sense with TV too.

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And I think that a lot of composers will say it's either movies or television.

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And if you're television by extension, sometimes it is video games because you get the

ability to develop themes over time, which you do in movies too.

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But TV can take such, like you said, you can elongate the content that you're doing over

six, seven, eight seasons.

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So if you have a theme for a character,

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You can go, you know what?

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It's going to evolve over this, as opposed to in a movie where it's like, hey, it could be

anywhere 90 to 120 minutes.

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There's a lot that you can do.

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But the amount of room that you have, the longer the content is, the more content you have

to work with.

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It just gives you even more to have a lot more compositional fun, so to say.

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Yeah, more time to develop ideas, take them to different places, try new things.

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Whereas you're very limited, or somewhat limited on a film to kind of get all this into an

hour and a half, two hours.

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So let's dovetail a little bit into what we're here to talk about, which is the world of

professional wrestling entrance music and the work that you've done with Hangman Adam

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Page.

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You know, there's a couple of people who are in the space of doing entrance themes, and

many times there are people from outside of the wrestling bubble who come in and do

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amazing themes for wrestlers.

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And some of those are my favorites because...

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You know, no matter how creative you can be, there's always going to be a little signature

of, okay, this person's been in the wrestling bubble or they score in a certain way or,

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you know, different things like that.

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But with someone such as yourself, who's coming from outside and doing all these different

projects, you now all of a sudden have a gentleman in Hangman Adam Page, who's come from

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New Japan, who's come from doing all these independent dates and is now going to AEW.

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and has this brand new theme to represent him.

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So how does it start with you getting either connected with AEW or getting connected with

Adam Page and having that conversation of you're going to be the sonic force behind Adam

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Page?

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I honestly, don't even, I don't know if I'm doing it right.

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Like, you would know, but I don't, you know, I'm coming from someone who doesn't work on

wrestling themes as you know, vocation.

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I don't really know that I'm doing it right.

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But I think Adam reached out to me and he had just found a track of mine that he liked

originally for his theme that was not composed specifically for him and he wanted to use

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it.

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And I said, yeah, sure, go ahead, use it.

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And then things started to take off for him.

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People liked the theme.

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I think AEW had to contact me to say, hey, can you put this theme on like Spotify?

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Because people like listening to it.

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That was a surprise to me.

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I was like, OK, sure.

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And then, yeah, people liked it.

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So I did another one that was just kind of like,

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taking that theme and exploring it more, doing something more custom, because what he had

originally gravitated toward was something I didn't do specifically for him.

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like, let's just see where we can take this in a cinematic sense and make it kind of grand

and go on a journey somewhere.

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So I did that and people seemed to like that too.

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And now he hit me up, I think it was over the summer and said, Hey, look, I'm kind of.

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changing gears here, I'm gonna do something different.

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I'm gonna, you know, wear my black hat now and can you do something for me?

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So I said, sure, let's try it out.

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And it's fun.

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I don't, you know, since I don't know the conventions of wrestling themes, I don't know if

I'm doing it wrong or doing it right or what you can tell me, but I'm just kind of looking

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at it from the sense of here's a character, what can we...

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make to kind of represent him in a musical way.

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Well, I mean, you you're saying Black Hat.

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think that's very true.

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He did burn down a house in this new iteration of his.

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And it's been really cool to see how for somebody in the bubble of knowing Adam Page's

story from being kind of like, if you, if you're kind of taking AEW as it is, the newer

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face that was grouped in with all of these brand new high level talents coming in or high

visibility talent, so to speak, saying, Hey,

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He's developing his character over the course of X amount of years.

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Now he's where he's at, where he's gone a bit to the dark side.

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And a bit is a very, very, very light term of that, as many of you know.

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If you don't, Google Hangman Adam Page versus Suarez Strickland.

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And then get back to me, pause this, come back, welcome back to the show.

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But when Adam Page comes to you for the first time, know you said that, correct me if I'm

wrong.

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You said that you had a track previously that he kind of heard and was like, that's really

cool.

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So now he wants you to work with him on another theme.

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When AEW comes about, are you having these conversations with him when he's on the

independence or are these conversations just starting when AEW starts?

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And he's like, hey, I need something that I can use for that.

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Yeah, I believe it was just when AEW starts and then he's looking for a theme, he's

looking around and he finds something I did and hits me up.

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So I don't know much about what his story was before then, so I don't exactly know what

was he doing.

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You said he was in Japan?

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Yeah.

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So with Adam Page, he's done a lot of different things.

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Most notably, he was with this group called Bullet Club.

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And essentially it's like all of these wrestlers coming in there, a bad guy stable, but

over time, the, as you know, with WWE being one of the staple promotions, if not the

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staple promotion at the time, New Japan and all these different companies, Ring of Honor,

and with the group Bullet Club, they all were able to really create a groundswell of

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support to make all of these independent wrestlers.

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really show that hey, professional wrestling is bigger than it's ever been.

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And when Adam Page was part of that group called Bullet Club, you could say that there

were other names like Kenny Omega, the Young Bucks, Cody Rhodes, all these different guys

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who were like the faces of it.

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And then they had these other guys which were great talents, but maybe not as visible or

not as developed yet.

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So when he goes into AEW, he joins with those guys.

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He's part of this group called the Elite, which is kind of an extension of that.

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And the Elite are...

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kind of the top names that come into AEW right away, on top of people that have come over,

new independent talents, but his story arc over time was, hey, I'm the guy that's

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connected with these people, but he, over time, ended up being what I would say is one of

the biggest success stories in AEW, saying, hey, I started off as somebody that was maybe

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a smaller name, and now I've grown into a household name at AEW.

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Was this any information that he was giving you when you were writing his theme saying,

this is the trajectory they want to take me on?

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Or was he more like, this is the character I'm representing, and saying, what can you do

for me for that?

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for this latest one?

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for the first one.

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For the first one, no, I got no information at all.

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He just liked the track and wanted to run with it.

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And it kind of gave me some ideas about what his character was like.

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And you could tell that from the piece of music that he was picking that, you know, this

is who his character is gonna be, I think.

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But yeah, I don't, you know, I just said, sure, go for it.

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And then completely forgot about it.

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wasn't paying attention until AEW reached out and was like, people like this track and

he's getting pretty popular.

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mean, was completely, I was oblivious to it.

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Now, when you see your music being used in video, in movies, in advertising, and in all

these different places, I'm sure for you intrinsically it feels one way, but when you're

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seeing that your music is going along with Adam Page and you see him coming out to it and

you see the crowd resonating with it, going crazy for him, and you see that he's totally

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in the moment, how does that make you feel seeing...

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the difference between something that may be a pre-recorded medium that you've done as

opposed to something where there's this live element where people are reacting in real

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time to work that you've done in the moment.

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It's cool, yeah, it's cool to see people dig it, you know?

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I don't really love watching my music on things, you know, when I've done something.

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I usually don't like to watch it afterwards, especially since a lot of times I work on

things where I will be watching it hundreds of times and working to it.

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And then during all that process, I can always go back usually.

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and change things or do things differently or if I hear something that's off, I can fix

it.

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But once it's out there and it's done, I usually don't like to watch it because I can't go

back and change it.

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I get worried about I'm gonna hear something and I'm not gonna like it and I'm not gonna

be able to change it and it's gonna like, just, I'm gonna get stuck in my head and I won't

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be able to stop thinking about it.

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So I generally don't like to.

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go back and listen, but it is cool to see people rocking out to the theme or liking it or

the crowd going crazy.

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That is cool, but I don't love.

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I'd rather watch it with the sound off so I don't have to go, I should have changed that.

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I don't like that.

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But what, in your mind, what makes a great wrestling theme?

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Are there components that you think are...

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are crucial.

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Yeah, I'll always go back to a few beat points.

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The first one, obviously, is it has to be representative of the character.

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for me, one of the things that I really like to ask wrestlers when I work with them is,

before we even get started on anything, what do you want people to know about you before

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you even get to the ring?

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And you can use any visual medium that even you've scored for as an example.

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Hey, what...

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is the vibe of this movie.

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Like for example, it's used to John Benet-Ramsay movie.

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You're not going to score that in the same way you would score up or the way that you

would score 101 Dalmatians or anything like that.

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It's got a very different flair, it's got a very different vibe.

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And for that, you want to really match what the character is.

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For me, one of the things that I've always tried to do is...

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There's this dynamic in wrestling where it's, okay, you have good guys, you have bad guys,

and you have some people that kind of skirt that line, like these tweeners, where they're

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kind of good, kind of bad, they do different things in that way.

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But I think the most effective themes are the ones that really tell the story of each

character.

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know, hangman Adam Page right now has gone very dark and very bad and very much of an ass

kicker.

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But if you know why...

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it makes sense that the theme that you made for him, we'll talk about in a sec, the second

one is significantly darker.

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But with the first one, the first one could have worked, I think, in both a good guy and

bad guy dynamic, because it showcases more of his rough and tough style.

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It showcases more of him having to overcome whatever challenges they are, by whatever

means he has to.

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The other thing I'll always say, and this is something I think with...

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even the fans that they get it and something that talent asks for all the time now, there

has to be a quick identifier when somebody first hits the ring or before they even walk

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out.

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Something that is a quick identifier to say, hey, this is who's coming out as opposed to

something generic.

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It could be a catchphrase.

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It could be something in the style of, like one thing that you did awesome in that first

theme was you've got that jangly guitar going on and you have those, you have the horse

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footsteps also.

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All of that tells you it's Adam Page before he even gets to the ring.

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And I forget which pay-per-view it was, but he was off for a little bit and he came back

into, I'm going to say it was the Casino Battle Royale where he ended up earning a shot at

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the championship.

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He was off for a couple of months.

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As soon as you heard that first one or two seconds, instantly crowd pops.

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You knew who it was.

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He comes out and that's it.

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But before he even came out, you didn't even have to see him on the stage to know he was

there.

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you heard that first one or two seconds of the piece and you were like, yeah, that's him.

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Those to me are two of the most important things.

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And I think that even though you haven't been in the wrestling bubble, all the work that

you've done in media just drives that point home that you know what you have to do.

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Yeah, there's almost like a signature that you get in that first couple seconds that

identifies who it is, right?

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Now, the themes, do they have to hit hard?

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Is that important?

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Are there any themes that don't hit hard?

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Yeah, I think it varies.

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It varies person to person.

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There's a couple of themes that I'll even go back to Don Callis's theme right now.

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If you know Don Callis in WWF years ago, he used to be Jackal.

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Now he's Don Callis.

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He has this whole thing called the Don Callis family, but he's like the most despicable

person in kayfabe.

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I've never met him in real life.

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So not speaking to you, the gentlemen, but in this, it's literally just a low synth pad on

like A1.

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just held down for two and a half minutes.

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And you just see his like kind of pasty face on screen, this kind of leathery looking face

and the backdrop that they created for, for AEW is like red and disgusting.

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And it's like, that's all you need for him.

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It doesn't hit.

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There's no rhythm.

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When I say it's just a synth pad in that A1 register, that's all it is.

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: 00:19:52

But a lot of wrestlers like to have something where the beat represents kind of what they

do.

257

: 00:19:59

with someone like Adam Page, you didn't have something which was super fast where he felt

like he had to run to the ring.

258

: 00:20:04

You also didn't have something that felt like he was Godzilla where it was slow prodding

and he was breaking buildings.

259

: 00:20:09

You had something that had a really strong defined beat like when he was walking to the

ring.

260

: 00:20:15

So it gives him that strong stature.

261

: 00:20:17

And when you spoke to him, when you spoke to Adam Page, was that something that he

requested from you?

262

: 00:20:22

Hey, I love this piece, but when I walk to the ring, it's gotta have this kind of beat,

it's gotta be this kind of speed.

263

: 00:20:27

What were some of the things that he asked you for specifically that maybe you wouldn't

have gleaned from just the piece that you had written before?

264

: 00:20:34

I think he was conscious of not wanting things to be too slow.

265

: 00:20:40

I don't think he mentioned a specific tempo he wanted, but he's like, kind of want

something like this, but this might be too slow.

266

: 00:20:50

Could you maybe speed it up a little bit?

267

: 00:20:54

I think he's conscious of that, but not a lot of specifics.

268

: 00:20:58

think he's more interested in the overall vibe he's trying to catch.

269

: 00:21:03

know, that spaghetti western outlaw vibe.

270

: 00:21:08

And he just kind of wants a real authentic kind of sound that kind of goes along with his

character.

271

: 00:21:15

just fits him, you know?

272

: 00:21:18

Totally.

273

: 00:21:18

And now we're going to talk a bit about what we have known now for the last couple months

with hangman Adam Page.

274

: 00:21:25

And I keep going back to a couple of the beat points that have, you know, gotten him from

being just a great cowboy shit, as we say, and from what he says, going all the way now

275

: 00:21:36

into the theme that you created, the second theme, black hat, which if anyone here knows

Adam Page, you know what he's been through.

276

: 00:21:44

Someone went to his house and threatened his kid in a crib.

277

: 00:21:46

I don't know about you.

278

: 00:21:47

That's a real good reason to get real mad and kind of go dark and do all that kind of

stuff.

279

: 00:21:52

Especially when the guy that did that, Swerve, went ahead and said, you know what, I'm a

changed man.

280

: 00:21:58

No, you don't do that to my kid.

281

: 00:21:59

I don't think someone would do that to your kid and get away with it.

282

: 00:22:02

So, you know, all of a sudden hangman Adam Page goes, I'm going from Ghost Town Triumph.

283

: 00:22:08

I have this great theme.

284

: 00:22:09

Then he comes back to you and says, and I'm just paraphrasing probably what he said to

you, Swerve threatened my kid.

285

: 00:22:16

I need a meaner theme.

286

: 00:22:17

How does that conversation look in terms of taking him from ghost town triumph to black

cat?

287

: 00:22:22

Pretty much like that, yeah.

288

: 00:22:24

I've been away for a little while, I'm coming back, I'm pissed, I'm going badass, I need

something that fits.

289

: 00:22:34

Let's make it dark, let's go full on, know, badass, know, burn the town down type of

theme.

290

: 00:22:44

I think he's into a lot of Western music too, so he kind knows what he wants.

291

: 00:22:49

He kind of was steering me in that direction that we ultimately went.

292

: 00:22:55

It's awesome.

293

: 00:22:56

One of the things I love most about the theme, first off, is again, it's a perfect theme

for them.

294

: 00:23:01

And for those who are watching the visuals too with AEW, many of you know how it's an

unwritten rule, but they have the, I forget which side it is, but one of the sides are

295

: 00:23:11

where the good guys come out, one of the sides where the bad guys come out.

296

: 00:23:14

It's something that's so subtle.

297

: 00:23:16

No one necessarily says it on screen all the time, but it's just something subtle.

298

: 00:23:20

And for the first little bit that he was using,

299

: 00:23:23

Ghost Town Triumph, was kind of in the middle of, I'm gonna go up the good way.

300

: 00:23:26

But once he really started using Black Hat, he ended up walking up the bad guy ramp.

301

: 00:23:30

And it's cool to see dynamics like that, but the other thing that I love about the theme

is it starts off with those bells.

302

: 00:23:37

The bells are such a funeral dredge kind of feel to Black Hat.

303

: 00:23:42

And, you know, I don't know if this is intentional.

304

: 00:23:45

I'm pretty sure they're both in, like, the key of A something.

305

: 00:23:51

I'm pretty sure that Ghost Town Triumph is in the key of A major or A adjacent, something

like that.

306

: 00:23:58

And then I'm pretty sure that...

307

: 00:24:00

my gosh, now I'm forgetting the name of the second one, it's Black Hat.

308

: 00:24:03

I'm pretty sure that Black Hat is in A adjacent.

309

: 00:24:06

And for those who are not musically literate, you have different scales that you can play

in, you have different keys that music is in, but I like to say sometimes it's in A

310

: 00:24:17

something.

311

: 00:24:18

Because at one point, so long as your kind of main note that you keep going back to or

your main home base is A, you can kind of float things around that.

312

: 00:24:27

Were things like that intentional?

313

: 00:24:29

And do you remember if there were any other themes that you took maybe from Ghost Town

Triumph that you brought into Black Hat to tie them together?

314

: 00:24:38

don't think I took any themes specifically other than just the overall vibe.

315

: 00:24:44

I think I started, I wanted to start it almost like you're not sure.

316

: 00:24:48

It starts with almost like a little train groove on some brushes like you're, like we're

almost, we're in a country land and things are, you're not sure which way it's gonna go

317

: 00:24:59

and it's just building and building and then kind of.

318

: 00:25:03

it falls off and we go into, know, we're in some dark territory.

319

: 00:25:07

So I wanted to try to build it up like that from the beginning and just, I wasn't sure how

prevalent or how strong the melody was gonna be, but it ended up being very strong, which.

320

: 00:25:22

I'm not sure if that is usually something that's done in wrestling themes, but it went

with a pretty big melody that's right in your face.

321

: 00:25:31

yeah, I tried to make the drums just kind of hit as hard as I could, like a big kit that's

got some filth on it and some big brass that's low brass that's kind of punching you in

322

: 00:25:46

the gut.

323

: 00:25:46

Just tried to do all the things I could to kind of make it just filthy, vintage, nasty,

western, kind of grungy almost.

324

: 00:25:58

And I think all of that is true.

325

: 00:26:00

And I think one thing that with the melody in Black Hat, that was a little bit different

than what you had done with Ghost Town Triumph also, Ghost Town Triumph had melody, but it

326

: 00:26:10

was really with a lot of the other instruments.

327

: 00:26:12

You have this lone instrument in Black Hat.

328

: 00:26:16

I think it's, I'm going to get it wrong, even though I shouldn't.

329

: 00:26:19

It sounds like a high pitched clarinet, or is it a trumpet?

330

: 00:26:23

no, it's a harmonica.

331

: 00:26:24

Harmonica, okay.

332

: 00:26:25

So you have that really carrying the main theme whereas before, and again, this may be

subtle things, but you could make the tie that before, even though he's a cowboy and he

333

: 00:26:35

has this element of him being this person that has to do it on his own, you could make the

argument that the melody being with the strings is kind of more like representative of him

334

: 00:26:45

being in a group, so to speak, right?

335

: 00:26:47

Or not necessarily him being in a group.

336

: 00:26:49

but him being part of the fans, that kind of thing.

337

: 00:26:52

Whereas now you've got this lone melody where it's like, nope, I'm completely alone.

338

: 00:26:56

Forget it, screw you guys.

339

: 00:26:57

This is what we're doing.

340

: 00:26:59

So I don't know if that was an intentional decision also.

341

: 00:27:02

And that first theme, the melody is partly being carried by like a choir, you know,

there's vocal in there, which probably also speaks to this, you know, we're in a group

342

: 00:27:13

kind of vibe.

343

: 00:27:14

But this one, think Adam specifically asked for harmonica on this.

344

: 00:27:20

was feeling that here, like it's...

345

: 00:27:23

I guess your outlaw instrument of choice would be the harmonica, so he wanted that and

asked for it specifically.

346

: 00:27:30

That's awesome.

347

: 00:27:31

Now for you, just more from a musical side or maybe how you've seen the reaction to

everything.

348

: 00:27:37

For you specifically, do you have a favorite out of Ghost Town Triumph or Black Hat?

349

: 00:27:44

And if so, why do you choose one over the other?

350

: 00:27:47

probably Black Hat.

351

: 00:27:48

But the one that I did in between, I think it was a hangman's journey, think, or, yeah, a

hangman's tale.

352

: 00:27:58

That's the one where I really wanted to take it on a journey.

353

: 00:28:01

I think I probably, that's my favorite, just because it goes to so many different places.

354

: 00:28:07

It almost.

355

: 00:28:09

It states the theme from the first one and then it kind of goes to this kind of string,

almost funeral type, very melodic thing where it really breaks down and then it comes back

356

: 00:28:22

up and absolutely hits really hard and gets back into the theme.

357

: 00:28:27

That's probably my favorite one just because it's...

358

: 00:28:30

It's very diverse and it really takes you on a journey somewhere, you know?

359

: 00:28:34

And you know what?

360

: 00:28:35

I feel terrible that I haven't brought up Hangman's Tale.

361

: 00:28:37

And I think maybe part of the reason I haven't yet is because it's more like it is

connected to Ghost Town Triumph.

362

: 00:28:45

And then we have this complete departure.

363

: 00:28:47

And you know what?

364

: 00:28:47

Hangman Page just wrestled on World's End, so I'm probably just like, that's the other one

in my head.

365

: 00:28:52

But when you go to, for example, having Ghost Town Triumph and then going to Hangman's

Tale again, you have all these different elements that from those two, you can say there's

366

: 00:29:02

a lot of connection points.

367

: 00:29:04

That sounds like that was intentional of instead of like Black Hat being like complete

departure outside of the style, Hangman's Tale, it was more like, hey, we want to make a

368

: 00:29:13

connected journey from where you were at the beginning of your AEW journey to where you

are now.

369

: 00:29:19

Yeah, that's not a theme, an entrance theme.

370

: 00:29:23

That was really, since he chose this piece of music that I didn't write specifically for

him and then people seem to connect with it and like it, was like, just felt like, let me

371

: 00:29:37

just see what I can do with this.

372

: 00:29:39

Since I didn't really have a chance to write this from scratch for this, let me.

373

: 00:29:43

see what I can do with this now, given what I know now about this character and what's

happened with this piece of music.

374

: 00:29:50

It wasn't intended for this, but what can I do with this idea that is intended for this

character?

375

: 00:29:57

It's so interesting to see too, because like you said, it's a lot of the times you have

someone coming right off the bat saying, this is my character and this is what I'm looking

376

: 00:30:06

to do.

377

: 00:30:07

And it seems like there's so many elements that have been pulled to make this awesome

Hangman theme.

378

: 00:30:12

And I know that you keep saying, you're like, I'm not of the wrestling bubble, but I

always tell people that have asked me like about getting into entrance themes, what's

379

: 00:30:19

really important.

380

: 00:30:20

You know, the biggest thing I think is,

381

: 00:30:22

my time in scoring media as well, always been wrestlers are like TV shows or wrestlers are

like movies.

382

: 00:30:29

Everyone has their own individual story.

383

: 00:30:32

Hangman Page, probably one of the most dynamic in AEW, but everybody has their own

dynamic.

384

: 00:30:37

Everybody has their own story and your background in doing music for film, for TV, for all

these different things, I think really helps satisfy that need.

385

: 00:30:48

for wrestlers too.

386

: 00:30:49

And the reason why I'm so happy to have this conversation with you today is the fact that

you don't come from the wrestling bubble.

387

: 00:30:57

You come from the background of the composer.

388

: 00:31:00

And I think that's really important because you're not just seeing it from, someone has to

have this quick spot here and then they have 90 seconds together.

389

: 00:31:07

You're seeing it very much from the way of who's this person, what's their story, and what

is the arc that they plan to go to over the course of time.

390

: 00:31:16

Very much.

391

: 00:31:17

like the other stuff that you've scored over time.

392

: 00:31:19

Yeah, I may not have worked in the wrestling world, so I don't know the exact conventions

or the things to do or not to do specifically, but these are, at the end of the day, like

393

: 00:31:31

you said, these are characters.

394

: 00:31:33

Just like, you know, a comic book has characters.

395

: 00:31:38

And some are good, some are bad, and they all have their own style, costume.

396

: 00:31:43

Et cetera, you're writing to the character, which I guess is universal.

397

: 00:31:47

What you do in a video game, you do TV show, film, whatever, characters, you know, are the

same across all medium, right?

398

: 00:31:57

So you're just writing to that and forgetting about what exactly this character does or

what the medium is or any of that, I think.

399

: 00:32:05

There's always a need for a good guy, there's always a need for a bad guy, and there's

always a need for like somewhere in the middle.

400

: 00:32:11

Are they really good?

401

: 00:32:12

Are they really bad?

402

: 00:32:13

Are the intentions?

403

: 00:32:14

All that kind of stuff.

404

: 00:32:15

So it makes total sense.

405

: 00:32:16

now with hangman Adam page, you've done all of these different themes for him.

406

: 00:32:21

What's next for you?

407

: 00:32:23

What do you got coming up?

408

: 00:32:24

I don't know right now.

409

: 00:32:25

I just finished that show that came out that I did with Serj Tankian.

410

: 00:32:29

I do a lot of work with him from the singer from System of a Down.

411

: 00:32:32

We've worked on a lot of shows together, maybe another one of those.

412

: 00:32:36

But the new year is wide open right now.

413

: 00:32:39

I'm not sure what's gonna happen, but that's exciting.

414

: 00:32:43

Perhaps a new show is gonna come up.

415

: 00:32:45

Maybe Adam comes back and says he needs a do-theme, because he's gonna do something else.

416

: 00:32:50

But I don't know.

417

: 00:32:51

I'm not sure right now.

418

: 00:32:53

Now, I would be remiss also as a huge system of a down fan.

419

: 00:32:57

How is it working with him?

420

: 00:32:58

I know he is a very creative character and someone that's been an influence on me for

years, little me, little considering 14, 15 years old, but how's it like working with him

421

: 00:33:10

and what's the dynamic between you two when you guys work together?

422

: 00:33:13

It's great.

423

: 00:33:14

He is one of the greatest guys to work with.

424

: 00:33:18

I he's just so creative and he makes it fun, you know, because it's always joking around.

425

: 00:33:27

We have a lot of fun working on stuff and I've been working with him on different things,

you know, here and there since probably 08, 09.

426

: 00:33:40

I was, I was,

427

: 00:33:43

an assistant for another composer way back then, Tom Holkenborg, Junkie XL, the composer.

428

: 00:33:49

And we worked on a project with Serge and it was to mix a live record, he did, but the

orchestra was recorded very poorly.

429

: 00:34:01

Whoever recorded the orchestra, there was a lot of clicks and...

430

: 00:34:05

it was just very poorly recorded so I had to go through the entire score for the whole

show and basically play in the orchestra line by line.

431

: 00:34:16

So we did that, it came out great and then yeah, he was working on an album after that in

,: 2010

432

: 00:34:29

things throughout the years and started getting into doing

433

: 00:34:32

these shows and it's been fun but he's such a great guy to work with.

434

: 00:34:36

mean he's great.

435

: 00:34:39

He seems like it and over the years you see how creative he can be and you see how

creative you can be and it's just one of these things where it's such expressive stuff

436

: 00:34:48

that he does in music too and you know unfortunately many of us are like hey system of a

down should do a reunion and he's like nope so you know if you do the reunions live but in

437

: 00:34:57

terms of doing like a full record he's like I'd rather not which is totally fine it is

your creative prerogative but on ropes and riffs I will say from one fan

438

: 00:35:07

one 36 year old fan at the time of this recording to you.

439

: 00:35:10

I'm speaking to you through the camera.

440

: 00:35:12

Please, one more record.

441

: 00:35:14

Just to say you did, but I digress completely here.

442

: 00:35:18

It's been, it's an interesting time to see that you guys are working together and you guys

have worked together, like you said, over the course of time.

443

: 00:35:25

One more thing I do want to bring up regarding Hangman Adams Page's theme, just to be able

to dovetail that, is the Dead to Rights music that

444

: 00:35:35

these wolves did, formally called this wolf, but we know him here as good buddy Darren.

445

: 00:35:40

So he was able to put together what I thought was a really great rendition of the Hangman

Adam Page theme, give it little bit more of a rock element to it.

446

: 00:35:48

First off, have you heard it?

447

: 00:35:50

And second, how did that come to fruition?

448

: 00:35:52

Had he reached out to you, tell us a little bit about what you thought of that song and

how maybe the communication went with you and him.

449

: 00:35:59

Yeah, I heard it.

450

: 00:36:00

It's great.

451

: 00:36:01

I'm honored that he would take Little O' Me's music and redo it like that.

452

: 00:36:08

It's really cool.

453

: 00:36:09

And he reached out, think when he was almost done and said, hey, this is what I've got.

454

: 00:36:14

Are you okay with me putting this out?

455

: 00:36:16

And I was like, yeah, man, go for it.

456

: 00:36:19

It's really cool.

457

: 00:36:20

That's something that's...

458

: 00:36:22

Amazing to see when you write music is someone take what you've written and kind of run

with it and do something you wouldn't even think of.

459

: 00:36:31

mean, it's honestly an honor to have him do something.

460

: 00:36:37

Yeah, I mean, it's cool when something you write takes on a life of its own and kind of

people pick it up and take it somewhere else and do something with it.

461

: 00:36:47

That's awesome.

462

: 00:36:49

And you know it really resonates with people too at that point.

463

: 00:36:51

You know, I think that for me, I've done music now professionally for about 10, 12 years.

464

: 00:36:56

And I think for me doing film music, doing wrestling entrance themes, it's so different

than going and performing.

465

: 00:37:04

And for me, I'd performed for years.

466

: 00:37:06

I still perform lightly.

467

: 00:37:07

But when you're performing, it's like, all right, cool.

468

: 00:37:10

This is what I'm doing in this moment.

469

: 00:37:12

Here's what we're doing.

470

: 00:37:13

And you're getting that feedback there.

471

: 00:37:15

But to see people

472

: 00:37:16

like you're seeing with Hangman's theme or like with Darren saying, hey, you know what, I

want to go ahead and cover this.

473

: 00:37:21

It really makes you go, you know what, I've made a difference here in a way, or it makes

you feel like, you know, the music that I've written doesn't just satisfy kind of what's

474

: 00:37:31

in here, but it also really resonated with other people.

475

: 00:37:34

And I agree with you.

476

: 00:37:35

It's such a special feeling when you hear people say that or you see people taking it in a

different direction, like you're saying.

477

: 00:37:42

Yeah, you write something and you're like, well, I kind of like this, but you know, we'll

see, I don't know.

478

: 00:37:48

And you put it out there and you see that, wow, other people are liking it too.

479

: 00:37:52

That's like the ultimate, you know, feeling of, yeah, you know, this was a cool idea and

it's resonating with people and that's really, that's amazing, you know.

480

: 00:38:06

have you seen Hangman Page use black hat recently in what he's been doing?

481

: 00:38:11

I think I saw our clip on YouTube shortly after the theme debuted and it's cool.

482

: 00:38:18

I dig it.

483

: 00:38:19

I like it.

484

: 00:38:21

I think one of the big parts for me that really made me resonate with Black Hat was it's

at the end of the Adam Page swerve match where they were in the cage.

485

: 00:38:31

And it's basically what I would say is Hangman's final descent into madness.

486

: 00:38:37

Because before that he's going in, but he's basically trying to get the crowd to be like,

this guy went to my house and put his shirt in my kid's crib and threatened my kid.

487

: 00:38:48

and you guys are cheering him because he's a good wrestler.

488

: 00:38:50

I'm not happy about this and I'm gonna wreck shop on this guy.

489

: 00:38:54

And there's one scene, and this is where I really thought that there's this magic between

Black Hat and what he was doing.

490

: 00:39:02

There's this one scene where he's done everything he's done to swerve.

491

: 00:39:05

He's done some heinous stuff, swerves in the ring, medics are there.

492

: 00:39:09

He's walking up the ramp and as the show goes off the air, Hangman Page walks back to the

ring.

493

: 00:39:16

but he's got this face that you don't know whether it's concern or whether it's I'm gonna

do more, but you start to see the breaking of this man happen kind of in real time.

494

: 00:39:26

And then all of a sudden he kind of gets down on his knees in the middle of the ramp and

he just lets out like this primal just like anger and just this release.

495

: 00:39:35

And some people will interpret it as he's finally broken, right?

496

: 00:39:41

Or he didn't know that he could go to this place.

497

: 00:39:44

but when you threaten somebody's kid, that's what happens, you know, or, you know, he

does, like, there's just all these emotions going on.

498

: 00:39:51

I don't feel that Ghost, I don't feel that the first theme, I don't feel that hangman's

tale, I don't feel like Ghost Town Triumph would do that justice.

499

: 00:40:01

I feel like the only theme that would do that justice is your hearing that leading to,

nah, nah, and then it hits, and you see him having this descent into madness.

500

: 00:40:10

I think if you go and watch that back,

501

: 00:40:13

If you haven't, or if you have, anybody go watch it again with this conversation in

context.

502

: 00:40:19

I think it's the perfect theme to showcase Hangman's descent into madness and finally say,

this is who I am now, this is what we've done, and this is what y'all, and especially

503

: 00:40:30

Swerve, have done to me.

504

: 00:40:31

I don't think you could have written a better piece for that.

505

: 00:40:33

That's wild, that's cool.

506

: 00:40:35

Yeah, that theme has a little bit, it's kind of little crooked, you know?

507

: 00:40:38

It's a little off, it's a little atonal or dissonant in ways.

508

: 00:40:43

And I'm glad that it's kind of lining up with where it's going.

509

: 00:40:47

You don't always know if it's gonna line up with the story.

510

: 00:40:50

You just do this theme and then you see how it plays out.

511

: 00:40:52

But it's cool that that kind of wonkiness or dissonance is kind of...

512

: 00:40:58

is lining up with the storyline and where things are going.

513

: 00:41:02

Yeah, and when I talk to wrestlers too, it's a lot of this kind of synergy between what

does the theme do to them before they get to the ring?

514

: 00:41:09

Like what kind of headspace does it put them in?

515

: 00:41:11

How is it when they're out there?

516

: 00:41:12

And then how can they resonate with it?

517

: 00:41:15

And I think that, you know, Adam Page has taken a different approach to coming to the ring

now that he's gone to be a bad guy.

518

: 00:41:22

I think that all of that starts before he even gets through the curtain.

519

: 00:41:25

And that's a testament to the work that you've done.

520

: 00:41:27

That's a testament to the communication.

521

: 00:41:29

between you and Hangman Page.

522

: 00:41:31

And I know this is an isolated person.

523

: 00:41:34

I know this is Hangman Page.

524

: 00:41:36

I know this is just a one time that you've done it.

525

: 00:41:39

But I hope this isn't the last of you doing entrance themes for wrestlers.

526

: 00:41:42

Because I think that, you know, people just hearing these themes that you've done would

say, you know what, we should bring Vinny back and do way more.

527

: 00:41:50

So I hope this isn't the last foray for you into the wrestling medium.

528

: 00:41:54

But.

529

: 00:41:54

hope so too.

530

: 00:41:55

I hope so too.

531

: 00:41:56

And now when you talk to wrestlers, they speak to how the themes kind of affect them?

532

: 00:42:02

Is that something?

533

: 00:42:03

definitely.

534

: 00:42:04

And actually, just had a wrestler named Lindsay Dorado on the show not too long ago.

535

: 00:42:09

And he's a gentleman who I've worked on a lot of different themes with.

536

: 00:42:12

when I, it's funny, when I ask wrestlers before I write themes, I say, what do you want

the theme to evoke before you hit the ring?

537

: 00:42:19

But while we're working on the theme, we're obviously talking about their influences and

things like that.

538

: 00:42:24

A question that I had asked him years down the line, has he still using his theme as, and

while we did the interview for the show was,

539

: 00:42:31

Is there a dynamic of having this theme do something to you before you even get through

the curtain?

540

: 00:42:37

And he was like, absolutely.

541

: 00:42:39

And it's something I had never thought before, even though you should, but he was just

like, even if the theme works for me, but it's not something that I can get into before I

542

: 00:42:47

walk through, I'm basically acting, you know?

543

: 00:42:51

And with wrestlers, you really see them do their best work when they're their own person

just dialed up to 11 or right before they hit.

544

: 00:42:59

they know, okay, cool, I'm ready to go out.

545

: 00:43:02

This is me before I hit the ring and this is me on the way to the ring when I get through

the curtain.

546

: 00:43:07

So it's an interesting dynamic to know that a lot of wrestlers need to get into that

character, into that mode before they go through the curtain.

547

: 00:43:16

And the theme that they have doesn't just represent them in front, but also gets them

behind the scenes.

548

: 00:43:23

helps them get to where they need to be before they go out there.

549

: 00:43:27

Is that what you're saying?

550

: 00:43:28

yeah, absolutely.

551

: 00:43:29

And you know, now you think about someone like Hangman Page who's listening to this theme

before he goes out and you know, if you're be a bad guy, yeah, that's the theme to do it.

552

: 00:43:38

That's the theme to do it.

553

: 00:43:40

Well, Vinny, thank you so much for making the time to chat with me today.

554

: 00:43:44

It's always awesome to not just talk to people in the wrestling bubble, but people that

have just such an amazing mind for music who are so involved in the composition side of

555

: 00:43:53

things.

556

: 00:43:54

And like I said, I hope this isn't the last time that you are in the wrestling bubble.

557

: 00:43:59

And I hope that as you do more in the wrestling bubble, we get to have some more

conversations because the work you did for Hangman is awesome.

558

: 00:44:05

And I'd love to keep diving in on all these different things that you're doing.

559

: 00:44:09

Thanks John, thanks for having me.

560

: 00:44:11

I hope so too, you know.

561

: 00:44:12

I hope so, we'll see.

562

: 00:44:13

But yeah, it's been great talking to you and yeah, if I do another one, let's come back

and rap about it again.